Podcast Episode 96

Episode 096 26 min

They Don't Need to Hack You Now. They Just Need to Wait.

with Kevin Kane

0:00 / 26:00

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Episode 96 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley, published June 2, 2026. Host Jon McLachlan, co-founder of YSecurity, talks with Kevin Kane, the co-founder and chief executive of American Binary, a post-quantum network security company in Kirkland, Washington, on his second visit to the show. Kevin explains the Diffie-Hellman key exchange that guides nearly every encrypted email, message and call, announces that Whitfield Diffie joined American Binary's advisory board the week before, and describes the private peer review and six months of formal verification of the company's new key exchange by Thomas Shrimpton and Joe Kiniry of Galois, covering a post-quantum key exchange, post-quantum authentication and NSA standards for national security networks. They cover very tight rules on AI tools at work, AI safety and the tails, Google's 2029 migration line and the harvest attack behind it, making an idea your own, trend following versus following the crowd, why you can't start too late in deep tech, the handshake problem that took years to find, brick houses and hay houses, why using post-quantum encryption doesn't by itself make a product quantum safe, a warning for investors, customers who won't wait for a cryptographer, Atlas Shrugged, owning the outcome without the cover of an institution, and advice to a younger self. About 26 minutes.

Episode notes

Google has said to be concerned about quantum computing by 2029. Kevin Kane, Co-Founder and CEO of American Binary, argues that timeline is already too relaxed and that companies treating post-quantum as a future problem are the ones most exposed right now. He breaks down what a real quantum-resilient architecture takes, why formal verification matters, and what harvest attacks mean for every encrypted message sent today.

Hosted by Jon McLachlan — co-founder of YSecurity.

The deep dive

The brick house

Kevin Kane, the co-founder and chief executive of American Binary, back on the show almost three years after his first visit, on the key exchange under every encrypted message, six months of formal verification, why using post-quantum encryption doesn't by itself make a product quantum safe, Google's 2029 line and the harvest attack behind it, and owning the outcome without the cover of an institution.

Kevin Kane builds cryptography for a computer that doesn’t exist yet. His company’s bet is that the hard part of the post-quantum move isn’t picking the new algorithm. It’s everything built around it, and proving that the whole construction holds.

“Using post-quantum encryption does not make the product quantum safe. You have to follow additional instructions, right, to do the cryptographic construction correctly.”

Kevin Kane, at 16:32

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 16:32
About 10 seconds: Kevin on why the algorithm alone isn't the answer. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Kevin co-founded American Binary, a network security company in Kirkland, Washington, whose product is a post-quantum VPN for enterprise and government networks (American Binary). He has run it as chief executive since March 2019 (LinkedIn).

A note before we start. American Binary works with YSecurity. Its logo is on our home page and on our penetration testing page. Everything below comes from the tape and the public record.

Jon McLachlan hosted this one alone, and it aired on June 2, 2026, with 65 words of show notes. This page is the rest of it: a section for each part of the conversation with the sources beside it, eleven figures, eighteen clips from the tape, the full transcript, and four tools: a quiz, a scorecard for how ready your data is for a quantum computer, a calculator for how long your recorded traffic stays exposed, and a timeline from Kevin’s years in Seoul to the deadlines ahead.

Back for a second round

Jon introduced Kevin as a repeat guest, and he is. Kevin’s first visit was episode 32 in September 2023, a 95-minute conversation about cryptography and quantum computers. Jon asked what had happened since.

“Well, a lot has happened in the last several years. I’ve co-founded American Binary. It’s a network security company focused on post-quantum encryption.”

Kevin Kane, at 1:56

The company’s legal name is Ambit Inc., and it does business as American Binary (American Binary). Its team page lists Kevin as chief executive and co-founder, with Andrew McElroy, the chief technology officer and the other co-founder, beside him. The product is Ambit Client, a VPN built on the company’s own protocol, MaxKyber (American Binary).

Kevin didn’t come to cryptography by the usual road. His LinkedIn runs through energy economics, finance and trading before American Binary. He was an oil market analyst at the Korea Energy Economics Institute in Seoul in 2009, then worked in emerging technology research for Lux Research in South Korea. He co-founded a machine-learning statistical arbitrage firm in 2012, built a high-frequency trading desk in Seoul in 2014, and ran an AI and machine-learning futures team at Rotella Capital Management from 2016 to 2019 (LinkedIn). On the tape he also mentions working for the Army’s Judge Advocate General’s Corps in Korea. That trading background comes back later, when he explains how he thinks about timing.

A timeline of seven entries. Open, 2009, Korea Energy Economics Institute: oil market analyst, econometrics, in Seoul. Open, 2011 to 2012, Lux Research: emerging technologies research and new business in South Korea. Filled, 2012 to 2015, Jumpgate Technologies: co-founder of a machine-learning statistical arbitrage firm. Filled, 2014 to 2015, a trading desk: co-founder of a high-frequency trading desk in Seoul. Filled, 2015 to 2017, Claro Automata: chief executive of a sentiment-driven statistical arbitrage firm in Seoul. Filled, 2016 to 2019, Rotella Capital Management: built and led an AI and machine-learning futures team. Dashed, 2019, American Binary: chief executive of the post-quantum network security company he co-founded.
Kevin's road to American Binary, from his LinkedIn.

The key exchange under everything

Kevin started where every encrypted conversation starts, with the moment two machines agree on a secret.

“there is a particular key exchange called the Diffie-Hellman key exchange, and it guides everything on the internet. Every email, every WhatsApp message, every VTC connection that’s encrypted uses this key exchange.”

Kevin Kane, at 2:12

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 2:12
About 25 seconds: Kevin on the key exchange under every encrypted message. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

His plain version of what a key exchange does is worth keeping.

“I’m going to send you encrypted some secret information, and I’m going to send you over a key that you can then use to receive the secret information that’s about to come.”

Kevin Kane, at 2:28

The Diffie-Hellman key exchange dates to 1976, when Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman published a way for two parties who have never met to agree on a shared secret over a public channel. Most modern connections use its elliptic-curve form. Its security, like that of RSA and the ElGamal system Jon named later, rests on math problems that today’s computers can’t solve in useful time, factoring large numbers and computing discrete logarithms. Shor’s algorithm, published by Peter Shor in 1994, solves both on a large enough quantum computer.

That’s why one mechanism carries so much risk. Break the key exchange and every conversation built on it opens, which is why the post-quantum work starts there.

Two rows of three boxes joined by arrows. Top row, today, two machines agree on a key, then talk: agree on a key over a public network, encrypt with it the message itself, every email, every message and call. Bottom row, with a large quantum computer, the same handshake, recorded: dashed, record the handshake today, filled, break the key exchange with Shor's algorithm, dashed, read the conversation years later.
What a key exchange does, and where a quantum computer breaks it.

Diffie on the board

Then Kevin dropped the news of the week.

“Whitfield Diffie joined our advisory board last week.”

Kevin Kane, at 2:48

American Binary announced the appointment on April 30, 2026. Diffie, in the release, says organizations “should begin transitioning as soon as possible to mitigate risks” (PR Newswire). Diffie and Hellman shared the 2015 Turing Award for the work Kevin had just described. American Binary’s home page now lists three advisors: Diffie, Bruce Schneier, the author of Applied Cryptography, and Brian LaMacchia, who founded Microsoft’s cryptography review board (American Binary).

There’s a nice symmetry in it. The man whose key exchange guides everything on the internet now advises a company built to replace it.

Six months of review

The claim Kevin cared most about wasn’t the advisory board. It was the review.

“we developed a new key exchange that is not theoretical and in the lab, but has completed private peer review and formal verification from two DARPA performers and cryptographers for the US community, and they are really famous people.”

Kevin Kane, at 2:55

He named them: Thomas Shrimpton, whom he described as a founder of Real World Crypto under the International Association for Cryptologic Research, and Joe Kiniry, both of Galois, the engineering firm that does research contracts with DARPA. Galois describes its cryptography practice as using “formal methods to guarantee that cryptographic operations function exactly as intended” (Galois).

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 2:47
About 25 seconds: Kevin on Diffie and the two reviewers. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

“And after six months of review and using some modern tools that were not available two years ago to do this kind of review, we completed a total review of our security claims that are novel.”

Kevin Kane, at 3:39

Formal verification is a mathematical proof that a design does what its specification says, for every input rather than the inputs someone thought to test. In cryptography it means proving the construction is right, not only that the algorithm inside it is strong. American Binary’s home page carries the reviewers’ summary, that no known protocol has had “specification and formal verification of comparable depth” (American Binary).

Kevin listed what the review covered.

“And these security claims include a post-quantum encrypted key exchange, post-quantum encrypted authentication, and then meeting NSA standards for national security networks in a world of quantum computing”

Kevin Kane, at 3:52

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 3:39
About 25 seconds: Kevin on what the review covered. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Four boxes in a row joined by arrows. Open, a new key exchange, not theoretical. Open, peer review, private, by cryptographers. Filled, formal verification, six months, new tools. Open, security claims, reviewed in full. Below, what the review covered, in Kevin's words: a post-quantum encrypted key exchange, post-quantum encrypted authentication, and meeting NSA standards for national security networks in a world of quantum computing.
From a new key exchange to a reviewed one.

All four parts

The NSA standard Kevin means is the Commercial National Security Algorithm Suite, CNSA 2.0, the algorithms the agency requires for national security systems. It names ML-KEM-1024 for key establishment and ML-DSA-87 for signatures, keeps AES-256 for the bulk encryption, and sets dates: VPNs and routers should “exclusively use CNSA 2.0 by 2030” (NSA). From January 1, 2027, the NSA’s FAQ says, “all new acquisitions for NSS will be required to be CNSA 2.0 compliant” (NSA).

American Binary’s own test for a quantum-resistant VPN is that all four cryptographic parts use CNSA 2.0 algorithms: authentication, key exchange, bulk encryption and hashing. Its FAQ says that if one part falls short, the product as a whole doesn’t meet the standard, and it treats hybrid designs, which pair a classical algorithm with a post-quantum one, as transitional (American Binary).

Four filled boxes in a row: authentication, ML-DSA-87. Key exchange, ML-KEM-1024. Bulk encryption, AES-256. Hashing, SHA-384 or SHA-512. An arrow points down to a dashed box, any part classical or hybrid, in American Binary's reading, with an arrow to an open box, not CNSA 2.0 for the product as a whole.
The four parts of a connection, and the rule that all four count.

Kevin added two conditions that matter to his buyers, software and mobile.

“And if they have, they’re definitely not in software, and they’re definitely not operating over mobile networks, which are more and more some of the sexy technical claims that my company position itself for.”

Kevin Kane, at 4:15

And he said where the protocol goes next.

“We believe our solution, our VPN and our protocol, and will be in zero trust by the end of the year, is the future of internet security, especially as we go into a quantum era.”

Kevin Kane, at 4:29

The rest of the market is taking a different first step. Cloudflare reports its post-quantum rollout as the share of traffic “protected against harvest-now/decrypt-later,” mostly through hybrid key agreement in TLS (Cloudflare). That’s a reasonable start for web traffic. For national security systems and the vendors who sell to them, CNSA 2.0 is the bar, and it asks for all four parts.

Tight rules at work

Jon called the review “like an 11 out of 10 on the cool scale,” and then asked about the other shift every company is living through, AI coding assistants. Did Kevin have a favorite?

“In American Binary, we actually have very tight rules”

Kevin Kane, at 5:41

“That’s good, it’ll make your SOC 2 and all your certifications easier.”

Jon McLachlan, at 5:46

That’s the right instinct for a company whose product is cryptography. Source code, keys and protocol designs are exactly what you don’t want flowing into a tool you don’t control, and a written rule for which tools may touch which data is something an auditor will ask to see. Our secure AI development work starts from the same place.

At home, Kevin wants the opposite of tight. His gripe is that the assistants he uses have grown more cautious.

“I want high inference that might be wrong. Like, I can do the rest without you. I don’t need you to tell me what I already know. I want you to tell me things that I haven’t thought of, that might be dangerous to believe, but I want to see anyway.”

Kevin Kane, at 6:12

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 5:49
About 35 seconds: Kevin on the AI he wants outside work. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

He framed it with a story from his Army years in Korea, about a rule written for one bad night that would have restricted everyone. His point was about error rates. Pick a tolerable one, and don’t design the whole system around the rare case.

“Be spicy. I came here to say that AI safety should not be made for the tails and punish the rest of us.”

Kevin Kane, at 8:11

It’s a view many cautious teams will push back on, and the two halves fit together better than they look. Strict rules where the stakes are your own product and your customers’ data, and room to explore where the only person who pays for a wrong answer is you.

Mirror Google

Then Jon asked the question the episode title promises an answer to: when will quantum computers actually break ElGamal, Diffie-Hellman and RSA? Kevin didn’t offer a date of his own. He borrowed one.

“So number one, the first is we’re at a level of risk. Let’s just mirror Google. A public company put a position out. A public company did that, right? So I don’t think public companies make deadlines on the future. Google said by 2029, we should be concerned. That’s 40 months.”

Kevin Kane, at 9:09

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 9:14
About 15 seconds: Kevin on the deadline he'd mirror. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Google’s security leadership announced in March 2026 that it is “setting a timeline for post-quantum cryptography migration to 2029” for its own systems (Google). The forecasts behind such dates are ranges, not points. In the Global Risk Institute’s latest survey, experts rated a cryptographically relevant quantum computer “quite possible (28-49%) within the next 10 years” (Global Risk Institute).

The show notes put it more sharply, that Google’s timeline is already too relaxed. The tape explains why in the next breath. The deadline that matters isn’t the day the machine arrives. It’s the day an attacker started recording.

Yes, it’s a harvest attack

Jon took the four years and ran the attacker’s math out loud.

“even then, if I’m just recording all of the encrypted, harvest it, and then you wait for four years, and you’ll be able to see everything, right?”

Jon McLachlan, at 9:34

“Yes, it’s a harvest attack.”

Kevin Kane, at 9:44

Listen · Jon on episode 96, from 9:34
About 10 seconds: Jon and Kevin on the harvest attack. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

That’s the episode title in one exchange. They don’t need to break in now. They need to record now and wait. Harvest now, decrypt later attacks are passive, leave nothing in your logs, and work against data you already sent. The White House memorandum that set the US government’s post-quantum goals, NSM-10 of May 2022, aims at “mitigating as much of the quantum risk as is feasible by 2035.”

The way to reason about it has a name, Michele Mosca’s inequality. Add the years your data must stay secret to the years your migration will take. If the sum is longer than the years until a quantum computer can break today’s key exchange, the data you send today is already exposed. A session token that expires in an hour doesn’t care. Health records, source code, defense data and long-lived keys do. The calculator below runs the inequality with your own numbers, and our guide to harvest now, decrypt later walks through the deadlines and a four-step migration.

Four boxes in a row joined by arrows. Open, record encrypted traffic, today. Open, store, for years. Filled, break, Google's line is 2029. Dashed, read everything recorded. Below, what still matters when the break comes: filled, health records, sensitive for decades, source code, designs and trade secrets, government and defense data, and long-lived keys. Open, a session token, expired an hour after it was sent.
Record now, store, wait, decrypt. Only the last step needs the quantum computer.
Four bars. Open, x, the years the data must stay secret, 10 years. Open, y, the years the migration takes, 3 years. Filled, x plus y, how long today's encryption has to hold, 13 years. Dashed, z, the years until the break, Kevin's four, 4 years. Below, two figures: 9 years of exposure for the last data sent before the migration ends, x plus y minus z, and 6 years of exposure for traffic recorded today, x minus z.
Mosca's inequality, with Kevin's four years.

Make it your own

Jon took a detour through the phones that came before the iPhone and the ones that came after, which all looked like the iPhone. His point was that copying an idea and making it your own aren’t the same thing. Kevin drew the line more sharply.

“If I have to have an opinion on what should be, I have no patience, no understanding, no sympathy for someone who copies something to make money.”

Kevin Kane, at 11:02

What he wants instead is people who care about the problem more than the payout.

“I tend to have a bias towards preferring to be around people who are so passionate about the problem, right, that they’re so obsessed on solving the problem, so lost in solving the problem, that they forget about money, and money is something that happens to happen as a result of that obsession.”

Kevin Kane, at 11:15

He tied it to a personal test. When you watch a movie with someone close to you, ask whether they see you in the character nobody likes, and be honest about the answer.

“And so that means having a high internal standard and not breaking that internal standard, no matter how much it hurts ourselves.”

Kevin Kane, at 12:26

The crowd and the trend

Jon asked whether a standard that high makes founding a company easier or harder.

“It’s probably harder, isn’t it, having a higher expectation?”

Jon McLachlan, at 12:58

Kevin answered from his years in statistical arbitrage.

“Yes, it results in long periods of being misunderstood because, you know, there are two things that people often misunderstand from an investor perspective: following the crowd and trend following are not the same thing, right? So when we follow the crowd, we get crap.”

Kevin Kane, at 13:04

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 13:13
About 15 seconds: Kevin on the crowd and the trend. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Trend following, in his definition, means following people whose track records beat the market, and being in the trade when they are. A thesis on its own is worth nothing.

“Theses are meaningless if your trades aren’t executing exactly where they need to be.”

Kevin Kane, at 14:02

Two columns. Left, following the crowd: a dashed box, everyone's thesis, the average idea, with an arrow down to a dashed box, nothing better than the market. Right, trend following: an open box, a track record, people who beat the market, with an arrow down to a filled box, be there at the trade, with them, at that moment.
Following the crowd and trend following, as Kevin separates them.

Timing is everything

Jon offered the old line, that timing is everything. Kevin agreed and gave American Binary’s version.

“It is. Timing is everything. I’ve seen it. You know, when we started this company, the time was not here, and it wasn’t here two years ago, and it’s starting to come here now. But two years later, it’s going to super be here. And four years later, super be here.”

Kevin Kane, at 14:21

The catch is that you can’t wait for the market to arrive and then start, because the work takes too long to learn.

“But you know, if you wait too late to start, you’re not going to catch up, because tech nowadays, especially in our area, it’s to the point where you need 20 years of accumulated knowledge to do something like we’re doing. You can’t wing it on a weekend or at a meetup with some friends and hack this.”

Kevin Kane, at 14:36

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 14:25
About 30 seconds: Kevin on starting before the market arrives. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

That’s the deep tech pattern. The core technology has to be invented and proven before there’s a product to sell, so the company that starts early has a head start no money can buy back later.

The handshake that kept failing

Kevin was specific about what those years were spent on.

“It took us years of finding out what was wrong with our systems when they weren’t working in the real world two years ago. And we learned that we were having a problem handshaking, which led us to developing a lot of solutions around our key exchange, but we didn’t know that that was the issue.”

Kevin Kane, at 14:55

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 14:55
About 30 seconds: Kevin on the handshake problem. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

New cryptography fails in ways no one has written up yet.

“There’s such a long road on learning what’s going wrong with software that is new, doesn’t exist in the wild except for what you built, and then putting it in a complex system.”

Kevin Kane, at 15:11

The tape doesn’t say what the handshake problem was, and post-quantum handshakes have a well-known source of trouble: size. At the ML-KEM-768 level, a public key is 1,184 bytes and a ciphertext 1,088, where an elliptic-curve key share is a few dozen bytes (Wikipedia). A standard Ethernet frame carries about 1,500 bytes, so a post-quantum handshake can spill across packets that a classical one never needed. American Binary’s FAQ names the same constraint, that PQC algorithms often run into maximum transmission unit limits, and says it matters most on mobile and IoT networks (American Binary). Those are the networks Kevin said his protocol runs over.

Four bars. Open, an elliptic-curve key share, a few dozen bytes. Filled, an ML-KEM-768 public key, 1,184 bytes. Filled, an ML-KEM-768 ciphertext, 1,088 bytes. Dashed, what one Ethernet frame carries, 1,500 bytes.
Why a post-quantum handshake is harder to carry than a classical one.

Truth to power

Jon asked about the proudest moment since the last time they talked. Kevin’s answer was about authority, and where it comes from.

“So nowadays we challenge directly some of the world’s most famous cryptographers and leaders from institutions around the world to look at problems in a way that they might not have, then to be able to speak with that authority which was earned is an incredible thing.”

Kevin Kane, at 15:54

The review, the advisory board and the years of field failures are what let a startup argue with famous cryptographers and be taken seriously. Authority earned that way doesn’t depend on a title.

Brick houses and hay houses

Then came the metaphor at the heart of the episode.

“It’s like the three little pigs, right? So we built a brick house and we didn’t build a hay house, and the brick house allows us to do things in it that you might not with a hay house, right? And everyone wants in your brick house, because the hay ones are all collapsing around us.”

Kevin Kane, at 16:10

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 16:09
About 20 seconds: Kevin on the brick house. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

The hay house is a product that swaps in a post-quantum algorithm and stops there. That’s the point Kevin made next, and the one this page opened with.

“Using post-quantum encryption does not make the product quantum safe. You have to follow additional instructions, right, to do the cryptographic construction correctly.”

Kevin Kane, at 16:32

A construction is everything around the algorithm: how keys are generated, exchanged, authenticated and rotated, what’s hashed, what’s encrypted, and in what order. A strong algorithm inside a weak construction is still a weak product. The Three Little Pigs is a fair picture of it, because the hay house looks fine until the wind comes.

Two columns of three boxes. Left, the hay house: open, a post-quantum algorithm in one place. Dashed, classical encryption elsewhere in the construction. Dashed, founded three months ago, zero IP, a product in six. Right, the brick house, all filled: a post-quantum algorithm in every part. The construction done right, by the additional instructions. Reviewed and verified, six months, by cryptographers.
A hay house and a brick house, built from the same algorithm.

Earn the right

Kevin had a warning for investors too.

“Investors might not be wise to invest in a post-quantum encryption company that was founded three months ago and that has, like, zero IP, and they’re going to build a post-quantum encrypted email client in six months, unless their expectation is that they might get a result four years later that’s product ready, because it’s such a long road. They didn’t earn the right.”

Kevin Kane, at 16:44

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 16:43
About 25 seconds: Kevin on the three-month post-quantum startup. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

The failure he described is the hay house in practice: a post-quantum algorithm in one place, with classical encryption still used elsewhere in the construction. For a buyer, the questions follow directly. Which parts of the connection are post-quantum, who reviewed the construction, and what did they find? A penetration test that looks at how the cryptography is put together, not only whether it’s switched on, is one way to get an answer you can show a customer.

The day the rumor lands

Kevin’s last point in this run was about trust, and it applies to any startup selling security.

“tell that to your customers who decide to stop using the product tomorrow because a bunch of crypto bros are freaking out on Twitter and X, saying someone broke, someone solved for the discrete logarithmic problem and broke this email’s thing. I don’t think anyone’s going to wait for a cryptographer to say, well, actually, AES-256 is still secure inside. I think they’re going to leave, or even worse, a bank.”

Kevin Kane, at 17:23

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 17:23
About 25 seconds: Kevin on the day the rumor lands. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

He’s right that the symmetric layer would survive. AES-256 isn’t broken by Shor’s algorithm, and the best known quantum attack on it, Grover’s algorithm, only halves its effective key length. It wouldn’t matter. Customers don’t wait for the cryptographer’s footnote, and a bank won’t either. A product that can show its proof the same afternoon keeps the customer.

“So hay houses are solutions that are good enough.”

Kevin Kane, at 17:52

A train on new rails

Jon reached for a novel to make the same point, Atlas Shrugged. Hank Rearden invents a metal stronger and lighter than steel, the experts say it will fail, and nobody wants to ride the first train on rails made from it except Rearden and Dagny Taggart.

Listen · Jon on episode 96, from 17:55
About 30 seconds: Jon on Atlas Shrugged. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

In Jon’s telling, the train gets across the country in record time. It’s the brick house again. Proof beats argument, and the people who built on the new thing get there first.

Own the outcome

Jon tied the story back to being true to your values, and Kevin took it somewhere larger.

“I think the proper way to look at the world is to imagine every year is the last year of humanity, and you want to prevent the end, and you’re going to optimize your behavior, your culture, your actions and your values around preventing that failure. And you’re not going to outsource your survival to invisible things, to other people, to governments. You’re going to own the outcome yourself to every level that you can.”

Kevin Kane, at 18:37

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 18:37
About 30 seconds: Kevin on owning the outcome. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

His example of what goes wrong without that ownership was the 2008 financial crisis.

“I mean, I think the financial crisis in 2008 happened because people who built those things can move on to other jobs.”

Kevin Kane, at 19:26

So he wants the responsibility to sit with a person.

“I think that the buck should fall on the human being, and they should look into the dark void and say, I will accept this problem, and I’m not going to face this problem under the cover of an institution. I’m going to face it myself, so that the accountability matches the seriousness. And that is how we behave in our company.”

Kevin Kane, at 19:54

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 19:53
About 20 seconds: Kevin on accountability. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

He expects the standard to cost him some hires as the company grows, and he’s fine with that.

“And as we scale, I’m going to insist that on people. It’s going to filter a lot of people out. That’s fine.”

Kevin Kane, at 20:14

For a security company it’s the right instinct. A named owner for every key, every system and every risk is what makes an incident survivable, and it’s the first thing a good auditor checks.

Two rows of three boxes joined by arrows. Top row, under the cover of an institution: open, build it, something consequential, dashed, move on to another job, dashed, nobody owns the failure. Bottom row, without it: open, build it, something consequential, filled, own the outcome to every level you can, filled, accountability matches the seriousness.
Who owns the outcome, under an institution's cover and without it.

People are complicated

Jon asked what Kevin would tell his younger self if he could go back in time and meet him.

“The biggest piece of advice, the one I struggle with the most, is that people are complicated. And you can have righteous standards for yourself, but be careful of judging other people in front of you for that, because that person might not meet your standard but can help you in other ways.”

Kevin Kane, at 20:37

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 20:36
About 20 seconds: Kevin on advice to his younger self. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

“So that’s something I’ve learned, that help comes from people sometimes we don’t even like. That’s very humbling, right?”

Kevin Kane, at 21:08

He talked about asking forgiveness of people he had hurt, and about the damage that forgiveness can’t always undo. Then the line every co-founder should hear once.

“You know, not everyone you start with is the person you’re going to finish with.”

Kevin Kane, at 21:46

A few turns left

Jon said that being a founder means getting used to a certain feeling.

“I’ve noticed, like, as a founder myself, you kind of have to get used to being unsatisfied.”

Jon McLachlan, at 21:58

Kevin’s answer was a game. He thinks of life like a role-playing game with a few turns left, which makes room for things other than the work.

“So you have your mission and vision, but is it really worthwhile to live just for that? I don’t think it is, actually.”

Kevin Kane, at 22:34

“And one of the lessons I would tell 10 years ago to myself is, don’t postpone happiness, integrate it into your work now. And if the people around you are not capable of it, demand they grow or find other people. Don’t sacrifice yourself for people who can’t match your happiness.”

Kevin Kane, at 23:14

Listen · Kevin on episode 96, from 23:14
About 20 seconds: Kevin on not postponing happiness. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

He learned it, he said, when he worked hard to come back and show his parents what he’d built, and both had died before he got there. His advice to younger people is not to count on later.

“You need to do it, not wait for it. You have to do it.”

Kevin Kane, at 24:13

It’s the same lesson as the harvest attack, turned inward. The cost of waiting arrives whether or not you were ready for it.

What happened after the tape

The record since the recording follows the deadlines Kevin and Jon talked about.

When we recorded. Kevin says Whitfield Diffie joined the advisory board “last week,” and American Binary announced the appointment on April 30, 2026 (PR Newswire). So the conversation took place in the first days of May 2026. The episode aired on June 2, and the video went up on our YouTube channel on June 11 (YouTube).

Two companion posts. The next day we published Harvest now, decrypt later, on the deadlines and a four-step migration, and What is deep tech?, on building a company whose core has to be invented first.

NIST sets the schedule. On October 27, 2026, NIST finalized its transition plan, with classical public-key algorithms deprecated after 2030 and disallowed after 2035 (Quantum Computing Report). That’s the same window the draft proposed in November 2024 (NIST).

Kevin at the Vatican. On October 22, 2026, Kevin spoke at the World Changers Summit at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in the Casina Pio IV, Vatican City, and gave a short interview there (YouTube). His talk from the summit, on trust in the quantum era, is on his own channel (YouTube).

From the Vatican: Securing the Quantum Future, a five-minute interview with Kevin recorded at the World Changers Summit on October 22, 2026, and posted by the Institute for Advance Studies and Cooperation. Watch on YouTube.

The next deadline. From January 1, 2027, new acquisitions of national security systems must be CNSA 2.0 compliant, in the NSA’s words “all new acquisitions for NSS” (NSA). Google’s 2029 target and the 2030 VPN milestone come after it.

A timeline of nine entries. Filled, April 30, 2026, Diffie joins: Whitfield Diffie joins American Binary's advisory board. Open, May 2026, the recording: a week later, by Kevin's account. Open, June 2, 2026, episode 96: the episode airs, and our two companion posts follow the next day. Open, June 11, 2026, on YouTube: the full episode goes up on our channel. Filled, October 22, 2026, the Vatican: Kevin speaks at the World Changers Summit. Filled, October 27, 2026, NIST: classical public-key algorithms deprecated after 2030 and disallowed after 2035. Dashed, January 1, 2027, CNSA 2.0: new acquisitions of national security systems must comply. Dashed, 2029, Google: Google's own post-quantum migration target. Dashed, 2030, VPNs and routers: only CNSA 2.0, in the NSA's schedule.
The public record after the recording, and the dates ahead.

What holds up best is the order Kevin argued for. Get the construction right, prove it to people paid to find the flaw, and start before the deadline makes you, because the harvest started years ago.

Did you catch it? A six-question quiz

Six questions from the episode. Each answer links the moment in the transcript.

Quiz · six questions

Did you catch it?

Pick an answer for each question, then check your score.

  1. Who joined American Binary's advisory board the week before the recording?

    1. Martin Hellman
    2. Whitfield Diffie
    3. Peter Shor

    b. "Whitfield Diffie joined our advisory board last week." Transcript, 2:48.

  2. How long did the review of American Binary's new security claims take?

    1. Two weeks
    2. Two years
    3. Six months

    c. "And after six months of review and using some modern tools that were not available two years ago to do this kind of review, we completed a total review of our security claims that are novel." Transcript, 3:39.

  3. Whose deadline did Kevin say to mirror?

    1. Google's
    2. His investors'
    3. A competitor's

    a. "Let's just mirror Google." Transcript, 9:14.

  4. What turned out to be breaking American Binary's system in the real world?

    1. A licensing dispute
    2. A problem handshaking
    3. A shortage of engineers

    b. "And we learned that we were having a problem handshaking, which led us to developing a lot of solutions around our key exchange, but we didn't know that that was the issue." Transcript, 15:02.

  5. What does using post-quantum encryption not do on its own, in Kevin's words?

    1. Make the product quantum safe
    2. Slow down the network
    3. Pass a security audit

    a. "Using post-quantum encryption does not make the product quantum safe." Transcript, 16:32.

  6. What did Kevin tell his younger self not to postpone?

    1. Fundraising
    2. Hiring
    3. Happiness

    c. "don't postpone happiness, integrate it into your work now." Transcript, 23:17.

Is your data ready for a quantum computer?

Eight questions for a company whose encrypted traffic someone might be recording today, drawn from what Kevin and Jon covered. Each one links the part of the episode it comes from.

Scorecard · eight questions

Is your data ready for a quantum computer?

Answer for your product and the systems behind it, as they stand today. If two answers fit, pick the lower one.

  1. Do you know everywhere your products and systems use RSA, Diffie-Hellman or elliptic curves?

    • No
    • For the main services
    • Yes, in an inventory we keep current

    "there is a particular key exchange called the Diffie-Hellman key exchange, and it guides everything on the internet." See The key exchange under everything.

  2. Do you know how long your most sensitive data has to stay secret?

    • No
    • A rough idea
    • Yes, for each class of data

    "Yes, it's a harvest attack." See Yes, it's a harvest attack.

  3. Is post-quantum key exchange turned on for your public endpoints and VPNs?

    • No
    • On some of them
    • Yes, everywhere it's supported

    "Using post-quantum encryption does not make the product quantum safe." See Brick houses and hay houses.

  4. Can you swap a cryptographic algorithm without re-architecting the product?

    • No
    • With a lot of work
    • Yes, by configuration or a library update

    Every part of the connection has to meet the bar, not one of them. See All four parts.

  5. Has anyone outside the team reviewed how your cryptography is put together?

    • No
    • A general penetration test
    • Yes, a review of the cryptographic construction

    "we completed a total review of our security claims that are novel." See Six months of review.

  6. Have your critical vendors told you their post-quantum plans?

    • We haven't asked
    • Some of them
    • Yes, with dates

    "I don't think anyone's going to wait for a cryptographer to say, well, actually, AES-256 is still secure inside." See The day the rumor lands.

  7. Is there a date on your migration plan?

    • No
    • A target year
    • Yes, with milestones before 2030

    "Let's just mirror Google." See Mirror Google.

  8. Do your long-lived keys and certificates each have an owner and a rotation date?

    • No
    • Some of them
    • Yes, all of them

    "You're going to own the outcome yourself to every level that you can." See Own the outcome.

Harvestable

Anything you send today could be readable later. Start with an inventory of where RSA, Diffie-Hellman and elliptic curves live, and with the shelf life of the data that crosses them.

Migrating

You know where the exposure is and some of it is moving. Next, get the construction reviewed, ask your critical vendors for dates, and put your own date on the plan.

Quantum-ready

Your inventory, your plan and your review are in place. Keep the inventory current as the product changes, rotate the long-lived keys on schedule, and keep the evidence a buyer will ask for.

How exposed is your recorded traffic?

Mosca’s inequality, with your own numbers. Kevin’s four years is the default for the break, and you can change it.

Calculator

How exposed is your recorded traffic?

Three estimates: how long your data has to stay secret, how long your migration will take, and how many years until a quantum computer can break today's key exchange.

–years today's encryption has to hold
–years until the break, in this estimate
–years today's traffic is readable but still secret
–years of exposure for data sent until the migration ends

Today's encryption has to hold for 13 years. If the break comes in 4 years, traffic recorded today is readable for 6 years while it should still be secret. Counting everything sent until the migration ends, recorded data is readable while still secret for 9 years. Anything above zero means the harvest is already working against you.

Mosca's inequality says you're exposed whenever the first two numbers add up to more than the third. The four years is Kevin's reading of Google's 2029 line, not a forecast. Expert surveys give a range, so try a few values and plan for the earlier ones.

From Seoul to Kirkland

Everything on this page sits on one timeline, from the 1976 key exchange to the deadlines ahead. Filter it by thread.

Timeline · 1976 to 2027

From Seoul to Kirkland

Filter by thread. Dates are from the public record except where marked as part of this show.

  1. Diffie and Hellman

    The key exchange that guides the internet is published (Wikipedia, on this show).

  2. Shor's algorithm

    Peter Shor shows a quantum computer could factor and compute discrete logarithms efficiently (Wikipedia).

  3. Seoul

    Oil market analyst at the Korea Energy Economics Institute (LinkedIn).

  4. Lux Research

    Emerging technologies research and new business in South Korea, to December 2012 (LinkedIn).

  5. Jumpgate Technologies

    Co-founder of a machine-learning statistical arbitrage firm (LinkedIn).

  6. A trading desk

    Co-founds a high-frequency trading desk in Seoul (LinkedIn).

  7. Rotella Capital Management

    Builds and leads an AI and machine-learning futures team, to January 2019 (LinkedIn, on this show).

  8. American Binary

    Kevin becomes chief executive of the company he co-founded (LinkedIn, on this show).

  9. NSM-10

    The White House sets the goal of mitigating as much quantum risk as feasible by 2035 (White House).

  10. CNSA 2.0

    The NSA publishes its post-quantum suite and timeline for national security systems (NSA, on this show).

  11. Episode 32

    Kevin's first visit, on cryptography and quantum computers (episode 32).

  12. The first standards

    NIST finalizes ML-KEM, ML-DSA and SLH-DSA (NIST).

  13. The draft transition plan

    NIST proposes deprecating classical public-key algorithms after 2030 and disallowing them after 2035 (NIST).

  14. VPNs by 2030

    The NSA's CNSA 2.0 advisory says VPNs and routers should use only CNSA 2.0 by 2030 (NSA).

  15. The post-quantum web

    Cloudflare reports its share of traffic protected against harvest attacks (Cloudflare).

  16. Oracle

    Ambit Client on Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, for enterprise and defense customers (PR Newswire).

  17. Google picks 2029

    Google sets its own post-quantum migration timeline (Google, on this show).

  18. Whitfield Diffie joins

    The co-inventor of the key exchange joins American Binary's advisory board (PR Newswire, on this show).

  19. The recording

    A week after Diffie joins, by Kevin's account (transcript).

  20. Episode 96

    The episode airs (transcript).

  21. Two companion posts

    Harvest now, decrypt later and What is deep tech? (harvest, deep tech).

  22. On YouTube

    The full episode goes up on our channel (YouTube).

  23. The Vatican

    Kevin speaks at the World Changers Summit at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (YouTube).

  24. NIST finalizes the transition

    Classical public-key algorithms deprecated after 2030 and disallowed after 2035 (Quantum Computing Report).

  25. New NSS acquisitions

    Required to be CNSA 2.0 compliant, per the NSA's FAQ (NSA).

What to do this week

Five things, in the order Kevin’s argument suggests.

  1. Find your key exchanges. List where your products and systems use RSA, Diffie-Hellman and elliptic curves, including VPNs, TLS endpoints and anything that signs. The scorecard above shows where else you stand.
  2. Rank your data by shelf life. The calculator shows how long today’s recorded traffic stays exposed. Move first on what has to stay secret longest.
  3. Ask your vendors for dates. Your VPN, cloud and CDN providers each have a post-quantum plan or should. Write down what they say.
  4. Review the construction, not only the algorithm. A penetration test or a product security review that looks at how your cryptography is put together tells you whether you built a brick house.
  5. Put a date on it. Google picked 2029 and the NSA picked 2030 for VPNs. Pick yours, and if you’d like a second pair of eyes on the plan, book 15 minutes with us.

Key takeaways

  1. Post-quantum isn't the same as quantum safe

    Kevin Kane's central point is that swapping in a post-quantum algorithm doesn't make a product quantum safe. The cryptographic construction around it, how keys are exchanged, authenticated and used, has to be done correctly too.

  2. One key exchange carries the internet

    The Diffie-Hellman key exchange guides nearly every encrypted email, message and video call. Its security, like RSA's, rests on math that a large enough quantum computer running Shor's algorithm can break, which is why the post-quantum move starts there.

  3. Reviewed by people paid to find the flaw

    American Binary's new key exchange went through private peer review and six months of formal verification by two DARPA performers, Thomas Shrimpton and Joe Kiniry of Galois, covering a post-quantum key exchange, post-quantum authentication and NSA standards.

  4. A Turing Award winner on the board

    Whitfield Diffie, co-inventor of the key exchange American Binary set out to replace, joined its advisory board the week before the recording. The company announced it on April 30, 2026.

  5. CNSA 2.0 asks for all four parts

    The NSA's suite for national security systems covers authentication, key exchange, bulk encryption and hashing, and it wants VPNs and routers on CNSA 2.0 alone by 2030. American Binary reads the standard as all four parts or none.

  6. Mirror Google's 2029

    Asked when quantum computers will break RSA and Diffie-Hellman, Kevin borrowed a public company's position instead of naming his own date: Google's 2029 migration target, about 40 months from the recording.

  7. They just need to wait

    A harvest attack records encrypted traffic now and decrypts it once the key exchange can be broken. Anything that has to stay secret past that day is already exposed, which is why the deadline that matters is when recording started, not when the machine arrives.

  8. Tight rules at work, room to explore at home

    American Binary has very tight rules on AI tools inside the company, which Jon notes will make SOC 2 and other certifications easier. Personally, Kevin wants assistants that offer high inference that might be wrong.

  9. Trend following isn't following the crowd

    From his years in statistical arbitrage, Kevin separates following the crowd, which gets you nothing better than the market, from following people whose track records beat it and being there at the trade.

  10. Start before the market arrives

    When American Binary started, the time wasn't here yet. Kevin's warning is that you can't wait for the market and then start, because his field takes 20 years of accumulated knowledge and can't be built on a weekend.

  11. New cryptography fails in new ways

    It took American Binary years to find what was wrong with its system in the real world, and the answer was a problem handshaking. Post-quantum keys and ciphertexts are far larger than classical ones, which is one reason handshakes get harder to carry.

  12. Brick houses and hay houses

    Kevin's version of the three little pigs: a brick house of proof and review lets a company do things a hay house can't, and everyone wants in when the hay houses collapse.

  13. Earn the right

    Kevin warns investors off post-quantum startups founded three months ago with no IP and a product promised in six months. They didn't earn the right, and they may still use classical encryption in the construction.

  14. Customers won't wait for the footnote

    If a rumor says the discrete logarithm problem fell, customers and banks will leave before a cryptographer can explain that AES-256 still holds. Proof that's ready the same day is what keeps them.

  15. Own the outcome

    Kevin wants accountability to sit with a person rather than an institution, so the accountability matches the seriousness. He points to the 2008 financial crisis as what happens when builders can move on to other jobs.

  16. Don't postpone happiness

    His advice to his younger self is that people are complicated, that help sometimes comes from people we don't like, and that happiness belongs in the work now rather than after the win.

Chapters

Tap a chapter to play from there. The play icon beside it opens that moment on YouTube.

Pull quotes

“we have just an awesome, spectacular, amazing repeat guest who's back on the show, Kevin Kane, co-founder and CEO of American Binary.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“Well, a lot has happened in the last several years. I've co-founded American Binary. It's a network security company focused on post-quantum encryption.”

Kevin Kane ·

“there is a particular key exchange called the Diffie-Hellman key exchange, and it guides everything on the internet.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Every email, every WhatsApp message, every VTC connection that's encrypted uses this key exchange.”

Kevin Kane ·

“I'm going to send you encrypted some secret information, and I'm going to send you over a key that you can then use to receive the secret information that's about to come.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Whitfield Diffie joined our advisory board last week.”

Kevin Kane ·

“we developed a new key exchange that is not theoretical and in the lab, but has completed private peer review and formal verification from two DARPA performers and cryptographers for the US community”

Kevin Kane ·

“And after six months of review and using some modern tools that were not available two years ago to do this kind of review, we completed a total review of our security claims that are novel.”

Kevin Kane ·

“And these security claims include a post-quantum encrypted key exchange, post-quantum encrypted authentication, and then meeting NSA standards for national security networks in a world of quantum computing”

Kevin Kane ·

“We believe our solution, our VPN and our protocol, and will be in zero trust by the end of the year, is the future of internet security, especially as we go into a quantum era.”

Kevin Kane ·

“That's like an 11 out of 10 on the cool scale.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“All of the traditional algorithms are just going to go out the window.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“In American Binary, we actually have very tight rules”

Kevin Kane ·

“That's good, it'll make your SOC 2 and all your certifications easier.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“I want high inference that might be wrong. Like, I can do the rest without you. I don't need you to tell me what I already know.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Just let the one person be wrong.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Be spicy. I came here to say that AI safety should not be made for the tails and punish the rest of us.”

Kevin Kane ·

“When do you think quantum computers will actually, like, be breaking ElGamal or Diffie-Hellman or all of these, like, RSA?”

Jon McLachlan ·

“Let's just mirror Google. A public company put a position out.”

Kevin Kane ·

“So I don't think public companies make deadlines on the future. Google said by 2029, we should be concerned. That's 40 months.”

Kevin Kane ·

“even then, if I'm just recording all of the encrypted, harvest it, and then you wait for four years, and you'll be able to see everything, right?”

Jon McLachlan ·

“Yes, it's a harvest attack.”

Kevin Kane ·

“I think what he meant by that was not, like, to actually, like, steal the idea.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“If I have to have an opinion on what should be, I have no patience, no understanding, no sympathy for someone who copies something to make money.”

Kevin Kane ·

“that they forget about money, and money is something that happens to happen as a result of that obsession.”

Kevin Kane ·

“And so that means having a high internal standard and not breaking that internal standard, no matter how much it hurts ourselves.”

Kevin Kane ·

“It's probably harder, isn't it, having a higher expectation?”

Jon McLachlan ·

“Yes, it results in long periods of being misunderstood”

Kevin Kane ·

“following the crowd and trend following are not the same thing, right? So when we follow the crowd, we get crap.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Theses are meaningless if your trades aren't executing exactly where they need to be.”

Kevin Kane ·

“It is. Timing is everything. I've seen it.”

Kevin Kane ·

“when we started this company, the time was not here, and it wasn't here two years ago, and it's starting to come here now.”

Kevin Kane ·

“But you know, if you wait too late to start, you're not going to catch up”

Kevin Kane ·

“You can't wing it on a weekend or at a meetup with some friends and hack this.”

Kevin Kane ·

“And we learned that we were having a problem handshaking, which led us to developing a lot of solutions around our key exchange, but we didn't know that that was the issue.”

Kevin Kane ·

“There's such a long road on learning what's going wrong with software that is new, doesn't exist in the wild except for what you built, and then putting it in a complex system.”

Kevin Kane ·

“then to be able to speak with that authority which was earned is an incredible thing.”

Kevin Kane ·

“It's like the three little pigs, right? So we built a brick house and we didn't build a hay house”

Kevin Kane ·

“And everyone wants in your brick house, because the hay ones are all collapsing around us.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Using post-quantum encryption does not make the product quantum safe. You have to follow additional instructions, right, to do the cryptographic construction correctly.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Investors might not be wise to invest in a post-quantum encryption company that was founded three months ago and that has, like, zero IP”

Kevin Kane ·

“They didn't earn the right.”

Kevin Kane ·

“I don't think anyone's going to wait for a cryptographer to say, well, actually, AES-256 is still secure inside. I think they're going to leave, or even worse, a bank.”

Kevin Kane ·

“So hay houses are solutions that are good enough.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Not only is it fine, but it can get across the country in record time.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“I think the proper way to look at the world is to imagine every year is the last year of humanity”

Kevin Kane ·

“And you're not going to outsource your survival to invisible things, to other people, to governments. You're going to own the outcome yourself to every level that you can.”

Kevin Kane ·

“I mean, I think the financial crisis in 2008 happened because people who built those things can move on to other jobs.”

Kevin Kane ·

“I think that the buck should fall on the human being, and they should look into the dark void and say, I will accept this problem”

Kevin Kane ·

“And that is how we behave in our company.”

Kevin Kane ·

“The biggest piece of advice, the one I struggle with the most, is that people are complicated.”

Kevin Kane ·

“So that's something I've learned, that help comes from people sometimes we don't even like.”

Kevin Kane ·

“You know, not everyone you start with is the person you're going to finish with.”

Kevin Kane ·

“I've noticed, like, as a founder myself, you kind of have to get used to being unsatisfied.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“So you have your mission and vision, but is it really worthwhile to live just for that? I don't think it is, actually.”

Kevin Kane ·

“And I'm not going to wait five years to be happy. I'm going to be happy today, integrated into my work.”

Kevin Kane ·

“don't postpone happiness, integrate it into your work now.”

Kevin Kane ·

“Don't sacrifice yourself for people who can't match your happiness.”

Kevin Kane ·

“You need to do it, not wait for it. You have to do it.”

Kevin Kane ·

About the guest

Kevin Kane, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, American Binary

Kevin Kane is the co-founder and chief executive of American Binary (Ambit Inc.), a post-quantum network security company in Kirkland, Washington, whose Ambit Client VPN runs on the company's own MaxKyber protocol. He has led the company since March 2019. Before it he was an oil market analyst at the Korea Energy Economics Institute in Seoul, worked in emerging technology research for Lux Research in South Korea, co-founded a machine-learning statistical arbitrage firm and a high-frequency trading desk, ran a sentiment-driven trading firm in Seoul, and built an AI and machine-learning futures team at Rotella Capital Management. He was first on The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley in episode 32, in September 2023.

About the host

Jon McLachlan is co-founder of YSecurity, the on-demand cybersecurity team for startups, and of Cyberbase.ai. The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley is hosted by Jon McLachlan and Sasha Sinkevich. Jon McLachlan on LinkedIn ↗

Context and sources

  • Kevin Kane's LinkedIn experience: chief executive of American Binary since March 2019, Rotella Capital Management from 2016 to 2019, Claro Automata from 2015 to 2017, Jumpgate Technologies from 2012 to 2015, a high-frequency trading desk from 2014 to 2015, Lux Research from 2011 to 2012 and the Korea Energy Economics Institute from 2009 to 2010. Source ↗
  • American Binary, home page: advisors Whitfield Diffie, Brian LaMacchia and Bruce Schneier, Ambit Client and the MaxKyber protocol, CNSA 2.0 algorithms across authentication, key exchange, bulk encryption and hashing, and an FAQ on MTU limits for post-quantum algorithms. Source ↗
  • American Binary, team page: Kevin Kane, chief executive and co-founder, and Andrew McElroy, chief technology officer and co-founder, at Ambit Inc. dba American Binary in Kirkland, Washington. Source ↗
  • PR Newswire, November 3, 2025: American Binary partners with Oracle to deliver a quantum-resistant VPN for enterprise and defense sectors, with Ambit Client on Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Source ↗
  • PR Newswire, April 30, 2026: Whitfield Diffie joins American Binary's advisory board. Source ↗
  • Galois, cryptography research: cryptographic security proofs, NIST verification suites and formal methods. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Diffie-Hellman key exchange: published by Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman in 1976. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Whitfield Diffie: Turing Award, 2015. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Shor's algorithm: Peter Shor's 1994 quantum algorithm for factoring and discrete logarithms. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, ML-KEM: at the ML-KEM-768 level, public keys are 1,184 bytes and ciphertexts 1,088 bytes. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, maximum transmission unit: an Ethernet MTU of 1,500 bytes. Source ↗
  • NSA, CNSA 2.0 algorithms advisory, May 30, 2025: ML-KEM-1024, ML-DSA-87, AES-256 and SHA-384 or SHA-512, with VPNs and routers on CNSA 2.0 alone by 2030. Source ↗
  • NSA, CNSA 2.0 FAQ: from January 1, 2027, all new acquisitions for national security systems must be CNSA 2.0 compliant. Source ↗
  • NIST, August 13, 2024: the first three finalized post-quantum encryption standards, FIPS 203, 204 and 205. Source ↗
  • NIST IR 8547, initial public draft, November 2024: classical public-key algorithms deprecated after 2030 and disallowed after 2035. Source ↗
  • Quantum Computing Report: NIST releases the final IR 8547 on October 27, 2026, with its post-quantum transition timeline and deprecation schedules. Source ↗
  • Google, March 2026: setting a timeline for post-quantum cryptography migration to 2029. Source ↗
  • Global Risk Institute, Quantum Threat Timeline Report 2025: expert estimates of when a cryptographically relevant quantum computer could arrive. Source ↗
  • Cloudflare, October 28, 2025, State of the post-quantum Internet in 2025: the share of traffic protected against harvest-now/decrypt-later, with the hybrid X25519MLKEM768 key agreement in TLS. Source ↗
  • The White House, May 4, 2022, National Security Memorandum 10 on promoting United States leadership in quantum computing while mitigating risks to vulnerable cryptographic systems. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, harvest now, decrypt later. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Michele Mosca, the cryptographer behind Mosca's inequality. Source ↗
  • YouTube, From the Vatican: Securing the Quantum Future, an interview with Kevin Kane recorded at the World Changers Summit on October 22, 2026. Source ↗
  • YouTube, Kevin Kane at the World Changers Summit: Multiverse of Trust in the Quantum Era, October 2026. Source ↗
  • The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley, episode 32: Kevin Kane, founder and CEO of American Binary, on cryptography and quantum computers, September 1, 2023. Source ↗

Transcript

Automatic transcription. Jon McLachlan hosts this episode with Kevin Kane. There is no diarization on the tape, and the two voices are close, so speaker labels were assigned from the content and checked passage by passage against reference recordings of each voice from this episode, and a few short lines may sit with the wrong speaker. Names were normalized where the recognizer misheard them (Jon McLachlan, Kevin Kane, American Binary, Thomas Shrimpton, Joe Kiniry, Galois, DARPA, ElGamal, Hank Rearden, Robinhood, YSecurity). Words in [brackets] are best guesses where the audio is unclear, and the two sponsor reads are summarized in brackets. Answers are transcribed as spoken, with repeated words and false starts trimmed. Short backchannels and the goodbyes after the sign-off are left out.

Read the full transcript 4,091 words

[Sponsor read: YSecurity, the sponsor of the show. Forty-plus security engineers who've done security at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood and Brex, rented by the hour with a monthly cap, for SOC 2, ISO and HIPAA. Book a free strategy call, and the first eight hours are free at ysecurity.io/startups.]

Jon McLachlan

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley. I'm your host, Jon McLachlan, and we have just an awesome, spectacular, amazing repeat guest who's back on the show, Kevin Kane, co-founder and CEO of American Binary.

Kevin Kane

Thank you for having me, Jon, on your show. It's always an honor to talk with you and to be a part of anything that you're doing. I don't know.

Jon McLachlan

No, you're too kind. You're too kind. It's the honor and the pleasure is all mine. I'm sure all of our listeners are dying to hear, like, all of the stuff that you've been through in the past two years or so, and where's American Binary and what's going on with Kevin?

Kevin Kane

Well, a lot has happened in the last several years. I've co-founded American Binary. It's a network security company focused on post-quantum encryption. One of the things that's unique about our company in the world is that internet security is generally guarded by encryption for everyone. And there is a particular key exchange called the Diffie-Hellman key exchange, and it guides everything on the internet. Every email, every WhatsApp message, every VTC connection that's encrypted uses this key exchange. Key exchanges: I'm going to send you encrypted some secret information, and I'm going to send you over a key that you can then use to receive the secret information that's about to come. And that key exchange that dominates everything on the internet is called the Diffie-Hellman key exchange, invented by Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman. Whitfield Diffie joined our advisory board last week. And one of the things that's unique about our company is we developed a new key exchange that is not theoretical and in the lab, but has completed private peer review and formal verification from two DARPA performers and cryptographers for the US community, and they are really famous people. One is Dr. Thomas Shrimpton, who is a founder of Real World Crypto under the IACR, the International Association of Cryptologic Research. It's like the Alan Turing level smart people who develop encryption for governments and for world internet security. And then the other one is Dr. Joe Kiniry. So both of them, who were also at Galois, famous engineering firm that does contracts with DARPA and so on, they did the review. And after six months of review and using some modern tools that were not available two years ago to do this kind of review, we completed a total review of our security claims that are novel. And these security claims include a post-quantum encrypted key exchange, post-quantum encrypted authentication, and then meeting NSA standards for national security networks in a world of quantum computing, which is the latest standard that we're not aware of one company meeting, that standard. And if they have it, have not, we're not aware of it. And if they have, they're definitely not in software, and they're definitely not operating over mobile networks, which are more and more some of the sexy technical claims that my company position itself for. We believe our solution, our VPN and our protocol, and will be in zero trust by the end of the year, is the future of internet security, especially as we go into a quantum era. And as we go into more details, I can tell you more and more and more about that. There's so much has happened since the last time we spoke.

Jon McLachlan

Well, that's so exciting. That's incredible. You've got these amazing minds that have joined your advisory board, [you've] met a very rigorous standard for a new type of cryptography that's actually quantum resistant. That's like an 11 out of 10 on the cool scale. And not to mention, like, as soon as these quantum computers become cheap, become readily available, can fit in your pocket, it's going to really change the game for how we think about security. All of the traditional algorithms are just going to go out the window. So, I mean, speaking of how the world is changing, of all of the new advent of AI and AI coding assistants and agentic SDLC processes and all of this stuff, you got a favorite one? Do you use it?

Kevin Kane

In American Binary, we actually have very tight rules on [LLMs].

Jon McLachlan

That's good, it'll make your SOC 2 and all your certifications easier.

Kevin Kane

On a personal level, for personal things, I think they are very fun. One of my latest gripes is, I noticed that one of the LLMs, I don't want to get in trouble, started being more factual and less inference-based. And I was like, no, stop, go back. I don't want cliff notes for the world. I want social latent, unexplored latent space. I want high inference that might be wrong. Like, I can do the rest without you. I don't need you to tell me what I already know. I want you to tell me things that I haven't thought of, that might be dangerous to believe, but I want to see anyway. And I think, my personal opinion is, maybe they should make two versions of the LLM, for smart people who can filter it and for people who need to be told this is not real. I don't want to use a system built for those people. All of the fun out of it's gone now. You know, I used to say that when I was in the Army, it's like, I remember outside the military base, and I was in Korea, and I worked for JAG, so I was [in] criminal prosecution, and we enforced the rules and we looked up the rules and laws and gave commander guidance on how to handle problems. And whenever somebody would get hurt off the base, there were two types, like parents. You know, it's like when the kid gets hurt and they want to make it off limits, I'm like, no, just the kid got hurt, and don't make any change. And they're like, what if it happens again? And I'm like, what if it's not fun tomorrow? Who cares? Let it happen again. So there was this incident where the soldier got into a fight and, you know, it was an ugly fight, and they were like, oh, now you have to have someone within arm's distance of you when you go off base to make sure that you don't get drunk and stupid. And I'm like, well, how often does that happen? Like once in six months? That's a pretty good rate. We'll just live with that error rate, no change. You know, it's like, yup. It's the same thing with, like, ChatGPT, you know, like, what is the error rate of, like, people misunderstanding that it's not a God, it's not real. And if it's one in a hundred thousand people, I can accept those loss rates. We don't need to ruin it for the other 99,000 people. Just let the one person be wrong.

Jon McLachlan

I mean, it's a great thing to be able to be wrong and then recognize that you're wrong, and you get an opportunity to learn and grow a little bit. Maybe you learn something new about how the world works. Maybe you get a new perspective of, like, how you feel the world.

Kevin Kane

Be spicy. I came here to say that AI safety should not be made for the tails and punish the rest of us.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, that's a huge shift. I see it with Anthropic. I see it in OpenAI. They've got all these safety programs, and now, like, if you violate the terms of service, even if you're on the API, they're going to record your data. Forget ZDR. It's going out the window. Pack your bag, folks. Like, give all of your data to OpenAI and Anthropic. If it's a violation of their terms, which is, you know, kind of subjective in some cases, they're going to record it. And I would not be surprised if they use that data to improve their systems, which means, of course, like, they'll train on it. Some IP issues might bubble up out of some of those cases, right? So super curious to have your hot take. When do you think quantum computers will actually, like, be breaking ElGamal or Diffie-Hellman or all of these, like, RSA?

Kevin Kane

You can put it at risk levels. So number one, the first is we're at a level of risk. Let's just mirror Google. A public company put a position out. A public company did that, right? So I don't think public companies make deadlines on the future. Google said by 2029, we should be concerned. That's 40 months. This is four years. And then, even if it is only like four years away,

Jon McLachlan

even then, if I'm just recording all of the encrypted, harvest it, and then you wait for four years, and you'll be able to see everything, right?

Kevin Kane

Yes, it's a harvest attack.

Jon McLachlan

It reminds me, you know, the story of, like, companies stealing ideas from other companies. It reminds me of a couple of things. I saw this graphic once of, like, ooh, cell phones before the iPhone, and there are all these, like, flip phones and, like, random things, and the BlackBerry was in there, kind of like, somewhere. Like a picture of all the different cell phones after the iPhone. They all look like the iPhone, all of them. And it changed, like, the way people think about their phones. And I don't know, I sort of see that as a, you know, what was that quote that Steve Jobs had? Like, real artists steal. I think what he meant by that was not, like, to actually, like, steal the idea. I think what [he] meant by that was, if you take a concept and you make it your own. This goes back to, like, being authentic, and, like, what does that even mean to make an idea your own? Well, it means something because you're different and you're special and you bring all these different things to the table. And if you really make it your own, you know, that's maybe worth something. Like, that's how [you build], right?

Kevin Kane

I think iterative innovation is one thing. Like, you know, a lot of innovation is iterative off of another idea. Yeah, so it's okay to be inspired by something and make a better version of it. If I have to have an opinion on what should be, I have no patience, no understanding, no sympathy for someone who copies something to make money. I just don't. It's just my character. I tend to have a bias towards preferring to be around people who are so passionate about the problem, right, that they're so obsessed on solving the problem, so lost in solving the problem, that they forget about money, and money is something that happens to happen as a result of that obsession. I think that that's the high trust outcome for humanity. That results in a high trust outcome. It results in being more beautiful people, people that we want to be around, people that we're excited to see every day. You know, one of the worst insults I've come up with was, I always say when we're watching a movie and we see a character that our partner or our parents relate to, to ask ourselves, do our parents or our loved ones see us in that character, or in the character on screen no one likes? And to be honest about that, to be honest about that with ourselves. And then to not allow ourselves to fall short of maybe being the person we want to be seen as. And so that means having a high internal standard and not breaking that internal standard, no matter how much it hurts ourselves.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, okay, so being a founder, building new things, doing the zero-to-one thing, that's extremely difficult in and of itself. But, you know, when you operate within, like, a set [of] boundaries, these very high expectations for oneself, do you find that that helps? As a founder, does that actually make things easier? It's probably harder, isn't it, having a higher expectation?

Kevin Kane

Yeah. Yes, it results in long periods of being misunderstood because, you know, there are two things that people often misunderstand from an investor perspective: following the crowd and trend following are not the same thing, right? So when we follow the crowd, we get crap. That's going to be the outcome, right? Nothing better than the market. Trend following is supposed to be reserved for following the trend of people whose track records are consistently beating the market, which means you got to be there at the time of trade. You got to be there on the trade with them at that moment. And if you're not in that deal and you're not in that moment with that trade, then you're just speaking thesis garbage, right? About trend following this and [that], but if you're not there at the trade, it didn't matter. If you're not there at the seeding of Facebook, you know, you can say you're following the thesis or whatever. Theses are meaningless if your trades aren't executing exactly where they need to be. And so the crowd is going to have a bunch of thesis you're going to follow, but unless you have the secret sauce to be there at the trade, it's just garbage.

Jon McLachlan

I love that. I hear you. It's almost like that saying that timing is everything.

Kevin Kane

It is. Timing is everything. I've seen it. You know, when we started this company, the time was not here, and it wasn't here two years ago, and it's starting to come here now. But two years later, it's going to super be here. And four years later, super be here. But you know, if you wait too late to start, you're not going to catch up, because tech nowadays, especially in our area, it's to the point where you need 20 years of accumulated knowledge to do something like we're doing. You can't wing it on a weekend or at a meetup with some friends and hack this. It took us years of finding out what was wrong with our systems when they weren't working in the real world two years ago. And we learned that we were having a problem handshaking, which led us to developing a lot of solutions around our key exchange, but we didn't know that that was the issue. There's such a long road on learning what's going wrong with software that is new, doesn't exist in the wild except for what you built, and then putting it in a complex system. You know, it could have been any infinite number of problems that was causing [its] failure.

Jon McLachlan

[What's] been the proudest moment that you've had since the last time we talked?

Kevin Kane

I think the proudest moment since the last time we talked, for me, being able to [speak] truth to power without being afraid of how it will be received by people who disagree with it, because I have such a foundation that it's not on thin air, you know, it's not on the weak things. So nowadays we challenge directly some of the world's most famous cryptographers and leaders from institutions around the world to look at problems in a way that they might not have, then to be able to speak with that authority which was earned is an incredible thing. It's like the three little pigs, right? So we built a brick house and we didn't build a hay house, and the brick house allows us to do things in it that you might not with a hay house, right? And everyone wants in your brick house, because the hay ones are all collapsing around us. Which brings me to a different point, this technical. Using post-quantum encryption does not make the product quantum safe. You have to follow additional instructions, right, to do the cryptographic construction correctly. Investors might not be wise to invest in a post-quantum encryption company that was founded three months ago and that has, like, zero IP, and they're going to build a post-quantum encrypted email client in six months, unless their expectation is that they might get a result four years later that's product ready, because it's such a long road. They didn't earn the right. And they might use it in the [Hellman] exchange, but then they're using classical encryption in the cryptographic construction. So, and then, you know, even if the AES side of it's still intact, when, you know, that side is broken and when it's put on the internet, though, tell that to your customers who decide to stop using the product tomorrow because a bunch of crypto bros are freaking out on Twitter and X, saying someone broke, someone solved for the discrete logarithmic problem and broke this email's thing. I don't think anyone's going to wait for a cryptographer to say, well, actually, AES-256 is still secure inside. I think they're going to leave, or even worse, a bank. So I call those hay houses. So hay houses are solutions that are good enough.

Jon McLachlan

I mean, it reminds me a little bit of the story from Atlas Shrugged. You know, Hank Rearden, he comes up with a new metal, stronger, lighter than steel. It's an imaginary metal. And all the scientists at the time are nay-saying that they built a railroad and put a train on it. No one wants to ride on the train, of course, except for Hank Rearden, you know, and Dagny Taggart jump on the train and they show everyone, like, hey, everything's actually fine. Not only is it fine, but it can get across the country in record time. So something about being authentic to yourself and your values.

Kevin Kane

Humanity has to survive. And so I look at, like I said to someone when I was overseas, I think the proper way to look at the world is to imagine every year is the last year of humanity, and you want to prevent the end, and you're going to optimize your behavior, your culture, your actions and your values around preventing that failure. And you're not going to outsource your survival to invisible things, to other people, to governments. You're going to own the outcome yourself to every level that you can. And when you're solving a problem in AI or any others, you assume no one else is going to solve it in the world, and you assume if you don't, bad things will happen to humanity. And then you escalate to what I would call a serious person, when we don't outsource our survival to invisible things or crowds that we can't hold accountable. I mean, I think the financial crisis in 2008 happened because people who built those things can move on to other jobs. So they are not owning the outcome for humanity, because they can move on. So I think that you should never put in charge of things that humanity's survival resides on those who are not going to be held accountable for it under the cover of institutions. I think that the buck should fall on the human being, and they should look into the dark void and say, I will accept this problem, and I'm not going to face this problem under the cover of an institution. I'm going to face it myself, so that the accountability matches the seriousness. And that is how we behave in our company. And as we scale, I'm going to insist that on people. It's going to filter a lot of people out. That's fine. They don't have to work here. You know, they don't need a purpose on our cost, on our back, in life. They can find that somewhere else.

Jon McLachlan

I'm super curious, if you could go back in time and meet your younger self, would you take that opportunity, and what advice would you share with your younger self?

Kevin Kane

The biggest piece of advice, the one I struggle with the most, is that people are complicated. And you can have righteous standards for yourself, but be careful of judging other people in front of you for that, because that person might not meet your standard but can help you in other ways. You know, look for the silver lining in all kinds of people. And don't be so quick to kick someone out of, maybe guard yourself against them, but write them off is not useful because they don't meet your standard. So that's something I've learned, that help comes from people sometimes we don't even like. That's very humbling, right? 'Cause then we're looking into ourselves and saying, you know, maybe I'm a little over-indexing on this thing I don't like too much. Maybe it's not that much of a threat to me, this character trait or that thing. And for asking for forgiveness, man, I mean, I've grown so much, and anyone, everyone who I have hurt, I wish one day they would forgive me. It doesn't always work like that, right? And even if you are forgiven, the damage is such that [it] can't be healed. So that sort of sucks about the journey. You know, not everyone you start with is the person you're going to finish with.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, no, that's really deep. I really appreciate that. It's humbling. It's true, too. And you just never know. I've noticed, like, as a founder myself, you kind of have to get used to being unsatisfied. Yeah, I mean, there's always something, there's always, like, more, there's always, like, the next piece, there's always the drive or the fire.

Kevin Kane

As a friend of mine put it, what sharpens my senses on those introspective things is that, like, think of it like a role-playing game. At my age, at 46, I only have a few turns left in the game, and it's over. And that means your senses then make room for things other than your work, you know. So you have your mission and vision, but is it really worthwhile to live just for that? I don't think it is, actually. And I think that that's a terrible way to live your life, is to live for mission and vision. I'm obsessed on it, but I'm not going to live for that. I live for people I enjoy being around. And if I don't enjoy being around them, I'm going to tell them that I'd like growth, right? And I'll grow so that we can be working hard and enjoying each other, 'cause I don't live long enough for anything else. And I'm not going to wait five years to be happy. I'm going to be happy today, integrated into my work. And one of the lessons I would tell 10 years ago to myself is, don't postpone happiness, integrate it into your work now. And if the people around you are not capable of it, demand they grow or find other people. Don't sacrifice yourself for people who can't match your happiness. That's a colder thing I have to say. Some people will disagree. That's fine. I mean, when I was young, I worked so hard and I thought, I'm going to come back and show my parents, and they were both dead before I got there. So I always tell younger people, don't count on that. Don't count on being successful and then coming back and showing people. Either they're going to be dead by the time you get back, or they'll have so moved on they're not recognizable anymore. So you can't live for that. You've got to integrate in the present piece, and you got to integrate them in the present, and you can't sequence things. You got to do everything. You got to do love part. You got to do relationship part now. You need to do it, not wait for it. You have to do it.

Jon McLachlan

Yep. That's so true. Well, thank you so much. Kevin Kane, the co-founder and CEO of American Binary. And huge thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to another episode of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley. I'm your host, Jon McLachlan, and this has been a YSecurity production.

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FAQ

Questions this episode answers

Who is Kevin Kane?
Kevin Kane is the co-founder and chief executive of American Binary, a post-quantum network security company in Kirkland, Washington. Before it he worked in energy economics and technology research in Seoul and in quantitative trading, including statistical arbitrage and a high-frequency trading desk. He was first on the show in episode 32 in September 2023.
What does American Binary make?
American Binary, legally Ambit Inc., makes Ambit Client, a post-quantum VPN for enterprise and government networks built on its own protocol, MaxKyber. Its home page lists Whitfield Diffie, Bruce Schneier and Brian LaMacchia as advisors.
What is the Diffie-Hellman key exchange?
It's the method, published by Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman in 1976, that lets two parties who have never met agree on a shared secret over a public network. Kevin says it guides everything on the internet, every email, message and encrypted video call.
Why do quantum computers threaten encryption?
RSA and Diffie-Hellman, including their elliptic-curve forms, rest on factoring and discrete logarithms. Shor's algorithm solves both on a large enough quantum computer, so whoever recorded the handshake can recover the key and read the conversation. AES-256 holds, because the best quantum attack on it only halves its effective key length.
What is a harvest now, decrypt later attack?
An attacker records encrypted traffic today, stores it, and decrypts it once a quantum computer can break the key exchange. It's passive, leaves nothing in your logs, and works against data you already sent. On the episode Jon describes it and Kevin confirms: it's a harvest attack.
When will a quantum computer break RSA?
No one can name the date. Kevin mirrors Google, which set 2029 for its own post-quantum migration, about 40 months from the recording. The Global Risk Institute's expert survey calls a cryptographically relevant machine quite possible within ten years.
Does post-quantum encryption make a product quantum safe?
Not on its own. Kevin's point is that you have to follow additional instructions to do the cryptographic construction correctly, and a product that uses a post-quantum algorithm in one place but classical encryption elsewhere is still exposed.
What is CNSA 2.0?
The NSA's Commercial National Security Algorithm Suite 2.0, the post-quantum algorithms required for national security systems: ML-KEM-1024 for key establishment, ML-DSA-87 for signatures, and AES-256 and SHA-384 or SHA-512. VPNs and routers should use only CNSA 2.0 by 2030, and new acquisitions must comply from January 1, 2027.
What is formal verification?
A mathematical proof that a design does what its specification says for every input, not only the inputs someone tested. In cryptography it shows the construction is right, not just that the algorithm is strong. American Binary's review took six months with tools that weren't available two years earlier.
Who reviewed American Binary's protocol?
Kevin names Thomas Shrimpton, whom he describes as a founder of Real World Crypto under the IACR, and Joe Kiniry, both of Galois, the engineering firm that does research contracts with DARPA.
Why are post-quantum handshakes harder to carry?
Size. An ML-KEM-768 public key is 1,184 bytes and its ciphertext 1,088 bytes, against a few dozen bytes for an elliptic-curve key share, and a standard Ethernet frame carries about 1,500. American Binary's FAQ says the MTU limit matters most on mobile and IoT networks.
What does Kevin mean by brick houses and hay houses?
A brick house is a product built on proof, peer review and a correct construction. A hay house is good enough until the wind comes. Everyone wants in the brick house when the hay houses collapse.
What is Mosca's inequality?
Michele Mosca's rule of thumb: if the years your data must stay secret plus the years your migration will take are more than the years until a quantum computer can break today's key exchange, the data is already exposed. The calculator on this page runs it with your numbers.
What is Kevin's advice for founders?
Hold a high internal standard, own the outcome yourself instead of hiding behind an institution, remember that people are complicated and help comes from people you don't like, and don't postpone happiness. Integrate it into your work now.
What has happened since the episode?
Our companion posts on harvest now, decrypt later and on deep tech went up the next day, and the video went up on YouTube on June 11, 2026. Kevin spoke at the World Changers Summit at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in Vatican City on October 22, 2026, and NIST finalized its schedule on October 27, 2026, with classical public-key algorithms deprecated after 2030 and disallowed after 2035.
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