Podcast Episode 31

Episode 031 45 min

Sergey Stelmakh, Head of Security Engineering at Yugabyte, on Innovation vs Security in Startups

with Sergey Stelmakh · Yugabyte

0:00 / 45:00

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Episode 31 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley, published August 3, 2023. Host Jon McLachlan talks with Sergey Stelmakh, head of security engineering at Yugabyte, about moving from mathematics to security, Yugabyte's distributed database, engineering cultures, compliance as a framework, the hours after a breach elsewhere, security versus innovation, what a no from security means, keeping a control's intent with Kubernetes network policies, FedRAMP, old customer questionnaires, why most companies don't need an HSM, a hiring rule where everyone has to say yes, and a motto about stopping what you don't like doing.

Episode notes

Explore the delicate dance between innovation and security in this enlightening episode of a YSecurity.io production, featuring Sergey Stelmakh. With a rich background that traverses the realms of mathematics and security architecture, Sergey delves into the crucial question of how to foster innovation while ensuring rigorous security. His journey, from an Assistant Professor of Mathematics at Belarusian State University to Head of Security at Yugabyte, MuleSoft (now part of Salesforce), and Symphony Communications, illustrates the deep interconnection between analytical thinking and practical security solutions.

Throughout the conversation, Sergey shares his insights on building effective teams that can navigate the complexities of engineering-driven companies. He emphasizes the importance of striking a balance between embracing risk for innovation and implementing robust security measures to protect against potential threats. His experiences highlight the challenges and rewards of creating environments where innovation and security coexist harmoniously.

Listeners will be treated to a thought-provoking discussion that not only covers the technical aspects of security engineering but also touches on the philosophical underpinnings of risk and protection in the digital age. Sergey's perspective sheds light on the essential role that security plays in enabling innovation, rather than stifling it, and how a strong foundation in theoretical disciplines like mathematics can provide a unique lens through which to approach these challenges.

Tune into this YSecurity.io production for a deep dive into the world of security engineering with Sergey Stelmakh. Whether you're a security professional, a tech enthusiast, or someone intrigued by the intersection of innovation and risk mitigation, this episode offers a compelling exploration of the principles and practices that guide the safeguarding of our digital future.

Hosted by Jon McLachlan — co-founder of YSecurity.

The deep dive

Pin the controls in the right place

Sergey Stelmakh, head of security engineering at Yugabyte, with Jon on puzzles and applied mathematics, a database built for cloud-native apps, an engineering culture, compliance as a framework, the days a breach elsewhere brings, security versus innovation, the no that means we don't understand yet, a control reinterpreted by its intent, FedRAMP, customer questionnaires, the HSM everyone asks for, a hiring rule, and a motto about stopping what you don't like doing.

Episode 31 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley aired on August 3, 2023, with Jon McLachlan hosting. The guest was Sergey Stelmakh, head of security engineering at Yugabyte, the company behind the distributed database YugabyteDB (Podbean, Apple Podcasts, Spotify). The episode is called “Sergey Stelmakh, Head of Security Engineering at Yugabyte, on Innovation vs Security in Startups.” Jon and Sergey worked together at Symphony Communications, Jon says on the tape.

Most of the hour is about one question: can security say yes to new things? Sergey’s answer starts with what a no means. When security says no, he said, there’s something it doesn’t understand yet, and that leaves room to talk.

“there is a room for us to have a conversation and come up with a reasonable solution.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 20:17

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 19:41
About 20 seconds: Sergey on what a no means. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

This page follows the conversation in order: a section for each part of it, fifteen figures, twelve clips from the tape, three LinkedIn posts, a talk on YouTube, the full transcript, and five tools: a quiz, a scorecard for whether your controls keep their intent, a calculator for what a control change costs in meetings, a timeline, and a to-do list. Where the decodes of the tape disagree on a word, the transcript puts its best guess in brackets, and the page doesn’t quote or retell those words.

Puzzles first

Jon asked how a PhD student in mathematics ended up in security. For Sergey it was a natural step. As far back as he can remember, he loved solving puzzles. Puzzles led him to mathematics and programming, and to applied mathematics at university. He started programming on the side, and over time moved into software engineering full time. He kept picking up hard tasks, and those turned out to be in security, cryptography in particular.

“for the past decade, it’s been my primary focus.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 3:10

His LinkedIn lists a PhD in mathematics from Belarusian State University, where he was an assistant professor from September 2008 to March 2013. Then came software engineering at Boolba Labs, Android and then security architecture at Symphony from 2013 to 2017, platform security architecture at MuleSoft from 2017 to 2021, and Yugabyte from June 2021 (LinkedIn).

Jon pointed out that mathematics and cryptography overlap, and that most security people don’t go that deep. Sergey said it helped. He has seen people from many backgrounds in security, and a PhD in applied mathematics, he said:

“is definitely not a must-have to build a career in cybersecurity.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 4:21

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 1:54
About 20 seconds: Sergey on how he got into security. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A timeline. September 2008: assistant professor at Belarusian State University, to March 2013, where he also studied for a PhD in mathematics. July 2010: Boolba Labs, software engineer and project director. March 2013: Symphony, Android tech lead, then security architect from October 2014. April 2017: MuleSoft, platform security architect, through the Salesforce acquisition. June 2021, filled: Yugabyte, head of security engineering. Then: "for the past decade, it's been my primary focus." Sergey, at 3:10.
Sergey's path from mathematics to Yugabyte. Sources: his LinkedIn and the episode.

One database you can scale

Jon asked what Yugabyte does better than anyone else. Sergey described a distributed database for cloud-native applications. It’s strongly consistent, he said, and has both SQL and NoSQL interfaces, so you can scale one database and run both kinds of queries against it.

Wikipedia describes YugabyteDB as a transactional distributed SQL database for cloud-native applications. Its YSQL interface is compatible with PostgreSQL code, and its YCQL interface is a Cassandra-like API that, unlike Cassandra, is transactional. The founders, former Facebook engineers, came together in February 2016, and the company open-sourced its commercial features under the Apache 2.0 license in July 2019 (Wikipedia).

Two cards side by side. YSQL: a SQL interface that is compatible with PostgreSQL code. YCQL: a NoSQL interface like Cassandra's, and transactional. Below, a list. Filled: a distributed database for cloud-native applications, strongly consistent, that you scale as one, Sergey said. The founders came together in February 2016, and the code has been open source under Apache 2.0 since July 2019.
One database, two kinds of queries. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Engineer your way out

Before Yugabyte, Sergey drove security architecture at MuleSoft. He joined, he said, before it went public, and Salesforce acquired it shortly after. Helping merge MuleSoft’s security function into Salesforce was a unique experience, he said, and a lot of fun. Wikipedia dates MuleSoft’s first day on the New York Stock Exchange to March 17, 2017, and Salesforce’s $6.5 billion acquisition to 2018 (Wikipedia).

When that transition ended, he looked for a company with an engineering culture. For him, that’s about the way a company solves its problems.

“So you face a challenge, and you engineer your way out.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 7:13

MuleSoft was that kind of company, he said, and so is a company of developers who write databases. Nobody in software is more hardcore than they are, in his view. Jon heard a theme: hard problems, solved in an elegant way. Sergey agreed.

“my job matches my personality.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 8:26

He thinks everyone’s career should line up with who they are as a person.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 6:51
About 25 seconds: Sergey on engineering companies. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Twenty areas, one focus

Jon asked about a typical day. Sergey tells people joining the field to keep a diagram of the security domains pinned to the desk.

“There are like twenty different areas, where cryptography, for example, is just one of them.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 9:28

“I primarily focus on DevSecOps and application security.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 9:36

That covers vulnerability management, threat detection and response, security architecture and a secure software development lifecycle. Supporting compliance is part of his daily routine too.

Yugabyte posted a session from its Distributed SQL Summit in October 2022 on the security questions a chief information security officer asks about YugabyteDB. The presenter introduces Sergey as Yugabyte’s senior director of security engineering, answering questions in the chat. Its chapters cover encryption, encryption in transit, encryption key management, authentication and authorization, and a secure software development lifecycle.

Yugabyte's session on the security questions a CISO asks, 19 minutes, posted on October 13, 2022. Watch on YouTube.
Three boxes. Cryptography, dashed, one area of about twenty. DevSecOps, filled, his main focus. Application security, filled, his main focus. Below, a list: vulnerability management. Threat detection and response. Security architecture and a secure software development lifecycle. Supporting compliance, part of the daily routine. Then: "I primarily focus on DevSecOps and application security." Sergey, at 9:36.
One of about twenty areas, and the work Sergey covers. Source: the episode.

Compliance gives you a framework

Jon called compliance a challenging space. Sergey said it can be, and that many people in security misread it. Engineers complain about compliance requirements, and he thinks that comes from misunderstanding the idea.

“The compliance gives you a framework”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 10:22

The framework makes sure you don’t miss anything as you harden the company’s security posture. Left alone, he said, he’d spend his days on cryptography, key management and certificate management.

“it forces me to think beyond that.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 10:49

“How do I keep the supply chain secure? How do I roll into production without unnecessary risk?”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 10:56

Six months after the episode, Sergey wrote up a framework of that kind for Yugabyte’s own product: the CIS Benchmark for YugabyteDB. What happened after the tape has it.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 10:01
About 35 seconds: Sergey on compliance as a framework. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. Left alone: cryptography, key management and certificate management, the work he enjoys most. With the framework, filled: upgrades, the supply chain, and rolling into production without unnecessary risk. Nothing gets missed. Then: "The compliance gives you a framework" Sergey, at 10:22.
What the framework adds to a cryptographer's day. Source: the episode.

The hardest days

Jon asked for Sergey’s best day at Yugabyte. It’s still ahead of him, he said, maybe the day the company goes public. The hardest ones come several at a time.

Security is a risk management business, he said: you weigh many variables and try to put a number on the risk. When a breach hits the industry, the uncertainty is high and you work with a lot of unknowns. His examples were Log4j and LastPass. Log4Shell is the Log4j flaw reported in November 2021 and exploited as a zero-day (Wikipedia). In late 2022, LastPass user data, billing information and vaults were breached (Wikipedia).

When the LastPass news broke, his team worked out within an hour that Yugabyte wasn’t affected. It was a tough hour.

“you always assume the worst.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 12:44

Jon said that staying calm and focused through days like that, positive without being over the top, and compassionate about everyone’s emotions, is what makes a good leader. On episode 17, Sean Cassidy described the Log4Shell days at Asana, when he asked engineering to drop everything and help.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 12:29
About 20 seconds: Sergey on the hour after the LastPass news. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A numbered list. One: the news breaks, his examples were Log4j and LastPass. Two: uncertainty is high, and the team works with a lot of unknowns. Three: assume the worst until you know. Four: with LastPass, the team knew within an hour that Yugabyte wasn't affected. Then: "you always assume the worst." Sergey, at 12:44.
The hour after a breach elsewhere, as Sergey told it. Source: the episode.

Big shops and small ones

Jon remembered the Symphony team. It was a startup, everyone was in the same boat, and the people made the difference. He encourages people to try both big and small companies, and he prefers the small ones. Sergey said it depends on the stage of your career. After a few small companies, a big shop with a big budget can look good. A small company shows you more: you see many different functions up close, far more than in a big corporation.

Jon added that each side brings what the other is missing. Big-company experience helps at a startup, and startup experience pays off many times over at a big company.

Security versus innovation

Then Jon raised the reputation security has. The security people show up in a meeting to say no, add requirements, stretch the timeline and ask for threat models of new features. He has been in awkward spots like that, and he has always wondered whether security can enable innovation, change and speed. Sergey turned the question back to him. Jon thinks so, hopes so, and is optimistic. Sergey said he is more skeptical, and laid out why.

“Security is all about mitigating risks”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 16:25

“Innovation is actually quite opposite.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 16:33

Innovation takes risks to make a big improvement in some area, so the two have radically different goals.

He compared it to the well-known inverse relationship between security and usability, where you have to balance one against the other. Security versus innovation works the same way, he said: the job is to find the balance that lets a company be innovative and secure at once, and to place each security control where it belongs.

He offered a guess about how a large company can lose the lead in a new field: a meeting where a few people from security call the plan too risky, and the company holds back. Companies can get too cautious and misread security risks, he said, and security people need to admit that it happens.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 16:33
About 35 seconds: Sergey on security versus innovation. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. Security: mitigates risk. Innovation, filled: takes risk to make a big improvement in some area. Below, a list. Like security and usability, one gets balanced against the other. Filled: the job, find the balance, and place each security control where it belongs. Then: "Innovation is actually quite opposite." Sergey, at 16:33.
Two goals that pull in opposite directions. Source: the episode.

A no means we don’t understand yet

Security people tend to say no, Sergey said, when they don’t know something. His advice was for the people on the other side of the table, the product managers Jon joked about: a no means there’s an unknown. Until they hear the firmest version of no, there’s room for a conversation and a reasonable solution, as in the quote at the top of this page.

On episode 95, Pranava Adduri of Bedrock Data made a related point: if security doesn’t offer a sanctioned path, people find a shadow path.

Three boxes joined by arrows. No: something isn't known yet. The unknown, dashed: name it. A conversation, filled: and a reasonable solution. Then: "say no if we don't know something." Sergey, at 19:36.
What a no means, and what comes after it. Source: the episode.

Reinterpret the control

For practical advice, Sergey said he leans toward detection and response. Then he reworded Jon’s point that startups take risks. In a smaller company, he said, you have more freedom in how you read a control.

“you have an ability to better interpret security controls.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 22:49

You can keep the control’s protection for customers, so the product stays secure, without making it a burden on the engineering team. His example was a control from years ago: allowlist the IP addresses of internal infrastructure. That was when Kubernetes was becoming the standard way to run microservices.

“What is the IP address in that environment? It’s just ephemeral.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 23:27

So his team kept the control’s intent and changed the method: Kubernetes network policies.

“it’s more secure than the original control was.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 23:51

The Kubernetes documentation describes network policies as rules for traffic between pods in a cluster, and between pods and the outside world. A policy can pick the allowed peers by pod or namespace with a selector, or by IP block, and it only takes effect if the cluster’s network plugin enforces it (Kubernetes).

In big, bureaucratic companies, a change like that is much harder to push through, he said. Jon agreed: a small company has less red tape. If you’re the person the company listens to on security, you can suggest something, show a demo, and win over the other 20 or 40 people.

“do a demo, and boom, you’ve just won over the other, like, 20 people or 40 people”

Jon McLachlan, at 24:31

Sergey has done it at small and mid-sized companies, and at Salesforce too. It’s possible at a big company, he said, and the price is the number of meetings you need to have. This page’s calculator, What does a control change cost in meetings?, puts numbers on that.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 23:20
About 35 seconds: Sergey on reinterpreting a control. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. The wording, dashed: allowlist the IP addresses of internal infrastructure. In Kubernetes, a pod's address doesn't last. The intent, filled: network policies pick the allowed pods and namespaces with selectors. More secure than the original control, Sergey said. Then: "What is the IP address in that environment? It's just ephemeral." Sergey, at 23:27.
One control, met two ways. Sources: the episode and the Kubernetes documentation.
Two cards side by side. Small company: less red tape. Suggest it, show a demo, and win over the other 20 or 40 people, Jon said. Big company, filled: still possible, Sergey said, at Salesforce too. The price is the number of meetings.
The same change, small company and big company. Source: the episode.

FedRAMP ranked first

That reminded Sergey of a project from his MuleSoft days: FedRAMP certification. It was painful and interesting, he said, and the most sophisticated security framework he has seen. He has also seen the Department of Defense’s impact level certification on paper, and called it extreme. As a framework a company can work with, he put FedRAMP at the top.

Meeting it takes a lot of thought, a lot of security controls and a lot of engineering work. Jon remembered the detail and the auditing, perhaps one of the most rigorous processes, he said, and a special cloud environment that lagged years behind the regular one, so a product might not even run there. Sergey said it’s much better now, with more or less feature parity.

FedRAMP is the US government’s program for assessing, authorizing and monitoring the security of cloud products and services. The government calls it FISMA for the cloud, and a 2011 memorandum from the Office of Management and Budget set it up (Wikipedia).

Jon added why it matters. A big pile of data at a social network is people’s lives too, and cyberbullying is real harm. With defense contracts and government agencies, a breach can put lives on the line. Sergey pointed to the human factor in recent breaches: people inside an organization who share more than they should. Technical controls are pretty good, he said. Jon agreed, and added that a phone call or an email that wins someone’s trust gets you a long way. Security awareness is the key to success, Sergey said, so security has to spread awareness and explain what the profession is about.

A list. Filled: the most sophisticated security framework Sergey has seen, and the top one a company can work with. Jon: the detail, the auditing, and a special cloud environment that lagged years behind. Today, more or less feature parity, Sergey said. Then: "a lot of security controls, and a lot of engineering work" Sergey, at 26:11.
What Sergey and Jon remembered about FedRAMP. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Questionnaires from another era

Jon came back to innovation from the customer’s side. In large business-to-business deals, he said, customers can be security’s best friends. Their security teams ask where your SOC 2 and your FedRAMP are, so security isn’t the bad cop. The growth of the company depends on its security posture.

“Sometimes customers can be our best friends.”

Jon McLachlan, at 28:51

Sergey wanted to add some spice. He works with customers, and he sees their security feature requests. Some of them make no sense. Jon had seen one the day before: a prospect asked whether his company would get its permission before adding any new vendor. With 100 customers, he said, they’re not going to ask a hundred people’s blessing to add something like Datadog to their stack.

Sergey said that’s the tip of the iceberg. Some security questionnaires come from the nineties, with questions 20 years old.

“They’re not real anymore.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 31:07

When he gets a request like that, he looks for the business justification.

“I would rather accept feature requests from business customers rather than security teams of those customers”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 31:22

The customer’s security team isn’t in that business, he said. It has a list of requirements, and it rolls the list over to you. Yugabyte’s Legal and Trust Center lists its certifications in one place: SOC 1, 2 and 3, ISO 27001 and 22301, PCI DSS and the CSA Trusted Cloud Provider program (Yugabyte).

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 30:51
About 40 seconds: Sergey on old security questionnaires. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. Business customers, filled: feature requests with a business justification. He would rather take these. Customer security teams, dashed: a list of requirements rolled over to you, some of it 20 years old. Then: "They're not real anymore." Sergey, at 31:07.
Two kinds of requests, and the one Sergey weighs first. Source: the episode.

Everyone wants an HSM

One customer request Sergey kept running into was a hardware security module. He isn’t a fan of the technology.

“if you ever work with HSM, you wouldn’t like that technology.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 32:08

An HSM is hard to manage, he said, and it’s built for a few particular use cases, such as running a public certificate authority. Jon asked him to explain it for people new to security. It’s a piece of hardware that does cryptographic operations for you, Sergey said, and it looks like a regular rack-mount server. It’s also hard to operate: shake it too much and the keys stored on it are gone.

Wikipedia describes an HSM as a physical device that safeguards and manages secrets, above all digital keys, and performs cryptographic functions. Some respond to tampering by deleting their keys (Wikipedia), a practice called zeroisation (Wikipedia).

Crypto companies keep their private keys in HSMs, Sergey said, and if something happens to the HSM, the keys are gone. He wondered how they back the keys up, since every extra copy is another place the key can leak. On episode 69, Riad Wahby of Cubist described one answer: an HSM holding a master key, locked to a secure enclave so that only known code can use it.

For a customer who wants one secret kept in an HSM, Sergey said, it doesn’t make sense.

“I see that everybody seemed to be obsessed with that.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 34:06

Yugabyte uses key management solutions in its place.

“There are plenty on the market.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 34:31

Key management covers the whole life of a key: how it’s generated, exchanged, stored, used, destroyed and replaced (Wikipedia).

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 32:30
About 35 seconds: Jon asks, and Sergey explains what an HSM is. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. HSM: hardware that does cryptographic operations. Hard to manage, and shake it too much and the keys are gone. Fits a few use cases, such as a public certificate authority. Key management service, filled: what Yugabyte uses for the rest. Plenty are on the market. Then: "There are plenty on the market." Sergey, at 34:31.
An HSM for a few use cases, key management for the rest. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Built at Symphony

Jon then pointed at their own past. Build a chat system with all of its keys kept inside an HSM, he said, and that’s what he and Sergey built together.

“this is what we built at Symphony Communications together.”

Jon McLachlan, at 34:45

Sergey called it a great technical project for a narrow use case. Jon said it opened up sales to the big names in finance, but it never broke out of that vertical, and then Slack came along, easy to use, and took the market. Sergey named it in three words: security versus innovation.

Jon called Symphony a special case. The big financial institutions were its first customers, sat on its board and owned the company, and investors who are also your customers cut both ways, he said. Sergey agreed: they had a strong vision, and they pushed it.

Wikipedia describes Symphony as a messaging and communication service for financial firms. In October 2014, Goldman Sachs and 14 other financial institutions put $66 million into setting up Symphony Communication Services (Wikipedia). Salesforce announced it would buy Slack on December 1, 2020 (Wikipedia).

Listen · Jon McLachlan on episode 31, from 34:43
About 35 seconds: Jon on the chat system they built at Symphony. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Top challenges, in their own words

Jon asked what Sergey looks for when he builds a team: a favorite interview question, red flags, green flags. His approach has gotten simpler over the years.

“interview toolkit kind of simplified a lot.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 36:39

He asks candidates for the top challenges they’ve worked on, and lets them sink or swim. If they can’t swim, he said, you see it right away. He doesn’t like quizzing people on technical areas they may not know, so the candidate picks the area and they have a conversation there. He thinks that’s fair, and it shows the professional.

“a conversation between two professionals”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 37:39

There are several rounds, he added, including coding interviews, so the technical skills get tested at another stage.

Not sure means no

Jon asked how the team decides when someone raises a concern: is there a process for championing a candidate or challenging the fit? Sergey’s rule: if you’re not sure, don’t hire, and everyone in the room has to say yes. Jon called it an AND gate. He has also seen places where a champion could carry a candidate over a concern. Sergey said hiring isn’t a democracy, and a no still needs a reason.

“if you say no, I expect justification.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 39:17

Not liking someone’s outfit doesn’t count, he said. A yes needs less explanation than a no, and a no comes with the red flags and what the interviewer found. He also looks for a mix of skill sets, and he builds a team spread across time zones.

“we need a better time zone coverage.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 40:17

That isn’t always possible, he said, so it isn’t advice for everyone. Jon added that a team spread out that way brings a lot of diversity with it.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 38:21
About 25 seconds: Jon asks about hiring, and Sergey gives his rule. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Four boxes joined by arrows. Interviewer, yes. Interviewer, yes. Interviewer, yes. Hire, filled, only if all say yes. Below, a list. Not sure? Don't hire. A no comes with reasons: the red flags and what the interviewer found. Then: "if you say no, I expect justification." Sergey, at 39:17.
A hiring decision as an AND gate. Source: the episode.

Stop doing what you don’t like

Jon asked what Sergey would tell his younger self. He’d love to have a beer with his younger self, he said. They’re different people now. The advice would be to look after his mental and physical well-being. Jon asked how he’d sell that to a younger Sergey. He might fail, Sergey said, but he has a motto he has followed since early in his career. If there’s something you don’t like doing, stop doing it, even without an alternative lined up, because you need the time for something else. He would start following it even earlier. Jon put it back in his own words.

“if you don’t like doing something, stop doing it.”

Jon McLachlan, at 42:50

Jon has changed his mind several times too, and he has always landed somewhere in security. He plays a game with himself that’s close to Sergey’s motto. One day will be the last day. If he wouldn’t pick today to replay as that last day, he asks himself why, and changes whatever the answer is. Sergey said it’s a good one, framed a little differently.

Listen · Sergey Stelmakh on episode 31, from 42:11
About 30 seconds: Sergey on his motto. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. Sergey's motto, filled: if there's something you don't like doing, stop, even without an alternative lined up. The freed time goes to something else. Jon's game: would you pick today to replay as your last day? If not, ask why, and change the answer.
Sergey's motto and Jon's game. Source: the episode.

Teach someone today

Jon asked for parting words. Sergey asked listeners to spread awareness.

“teach someone about security today.”

Sergey Stelmakh, at 44:37

Jon posted the episode on LinkedIn the evening it aired.

Jon on marrying innovation, which takes risks, with security, which reduces them.

Jon McLachlan · August 3, 2023
Jon's post on the episode. View on LinkedIn.

What happened after the tape

The CIS Benchmark for YugabyteDB. On January 31, 2024, Sergey announced that the Center for Internet Security had published a benchmark for YugabyteDB. It covers release 2.20 of the self-managed product, and Yugabyte says YugabyteDB is the first distributed SQL database to complete one. It has two levels: settings any system should have, and stricter settings that may cost some functionality (Yugabyte). It’s the kind of framework he described in Compliance gives you a framework. In his LinkedIn post he thanked the team behind it, among them Sasha Sinkevich, a co-founder of YSecurity.

Sergey thanks the team behind the CIS Benchmark for YugabyteDB.

Sergey Stelmakh · January 31, 2024
Sergey's post on the benchmark. Sasha Sinkevich, one of the people he thanks, co-founded YSecurity. View on LinkedIn.

Detection for the managed service. In January 2024, Yugabyte wrote up how it chose detection tooling for the infrastructure behind its managed database. Its requirements started with intrusion detection, file integrity monitoring, malware detection and log search, and it found a gap in Kubernetes support among the tools it looked at (Yugabyte). It picked the self-hosted version of the open-source tool Wazuh (Yugabyte).

PCI DSS Level 1. On March 14, 2024, Yugabyte announced PCI DSS Level 1 compliance for its fully managed database service. Level 1 means an annual report from a Qualified Security Assessor, quarterly network scans, and penetration testing (Yugabyte). Sergey shared it with a note: “It wasn’t my first rodeo with PCI”.

Sergey congratulates the Yugabyte team on PCI DSS.

Sergey Stelmakh · March 14, 2024
Sergey's post on PCI DSS Level 1. View on LinkedIn.

A data layer for agents. On May 7, 2026, Yugabyte introduced Meko, a single data layer for the knowledge, memory and decision traces of multi-agent systems, behind one MCP endpoint (Yugabyte). Sergey shared the launch on LinkedIn.

At KubeCon. On November 10, 2026, Yugabyte said on X that its engineers and architects were at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2026 (X).

More on this site. On episode 76, Michael Nov of Prime Security said security is not always in the room when design decisions get made. On episode 95, Pranava Adduri compared good security to the brakes that let a driver take a corner at speed.

A timeline. January 2024, filled: CIS Benchmark, published for YugabyteDB, and announced by Sergey. January 2024: detection, Yugabyte picks Wazuh for the infrastructure behind its managed service. March 2024, filled: PCI DSS Level 1, for the fully managed service. May 2026: Meko, a data layer for multi-agent systems. November 2026: KubeCon, Yugabyte at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America.
After the tape, from the CIS Benchmark to KubeCon. Sources: Yugabyte, LinkedIn and X.

Did you catch it? A seven-question quiz

Seven questions from the episode. Each answer links the moment in the transcript or its section.

Quiz · seven questions

Did you catch it?

Pick an answer to see whether you caught it.

  1. What led Sergey to mathematics and programming?

    a. Puzzles, and they led him to mathematics and programming. See Puzzles first.

  2. What does compliance give you, in Sergey's view?

    b. "The compliance gives you a framework" Transcript, 10:22.

  3. After the LastPass news, how long did Sergey's team take to confirm Yugabyte wasn't affected?

    c. Within an hour, and it was a tough hour. See The hardest days.

  4. When security says no, what does it usually mean, according to Sergey?

    a. "say no if we don't know something." Transcript, 19:36.

  5. What did Sergey's team use in place of an IP allowlist for internal infrastructure?

    b. Network policies, which met the intent of the old control. See Reinterpret the control.

  6. Which framework did Sergey rank first of all he has seen?

    c. FedRAMP, which he worked through at MuleSoft. See FedRAMP ranked first.

  7. How does Sergey's team make a hiring decision?

    a. Everyone in the room has to say yes, and a no needs a reason. See Not sure means no.

Do your controls keep their intent?

Eight questions on how your security program says yes, and whether your controls protect what they were written to protect. Each tip quotes the tape or paraphrases it, and links its section.

Scorecard · eight questions

Do your controls keep their intent?

Answer for your company as it runs today. If two answers fit, pick the lower one.

  1. When security says no to a new feature, what happens next?

    • The no is final
    • Sometimes there's a follow-up meeting
    • We name what we don't understand yet and work out a solution together

    "say no if we don't know something." See A no means we don't understand yet.

  2. Do you know the intent behind each control you follow?

    • We follow the wording
    • For some controls
    • Each control has a written intent, and we meet it in the way that fits our stack

    "What is the IP address in that environment? It's just ephemeral." See Reinterpret the control.

  3. How does your team treat compliance?

    • As paperwork for auditors
    • As a checklist before each audit
    • As a framework that makes sure we don't miss anything as we harden

    "The compliance gives you a framework" See Compliance gives you a framework.

  4. When a widely used vendor or library is breached, how soon do you know whether you're affected?

    • Days later, if at all
    • Within a day
    • Within an hour

    "you always assume the worst." See The hardest days.

  5. How do you detect and respond to an attack in progress?

    • We'd find out from a customer
    • We have alerts, and nobody owns them
    • Detection has an owner and a response plan we've practiced

    For practical advice, Sergey leans toward detection and response. See Reinterpret the control.

  6. How do you answer customer security questionnaires?

    • From scratch each time
    • From a shared bank of answers
    • From a published trust page and standard documents, and we push back on questions that don't apply

    "They're not real anymore." See Questionnaires from another era.

  7. Where do your encryption keys and secrets live?

    • In code or config files
    • In a secrets manager, for some systems
    • In a key management service, with an HSM only where a use case needs one

    Yugabyte uses key management solutions, and an HSM fits a few use cases. See Everyone wants an HSM.

  8. How does your security team decide on a hire?

    • The hiring manager decides alone
    • A majority vote
    • Everyone in the loop says yes, and a no comes with reasons

    "if you say no, I expect justification." See Not sure means no.

Too risky

Security says no, and the no ends the conversation. Start by writing down the intent of your top controls, and what an engineer needs from security to get to yes.

Room for a conversation

Security and engineering talk, and some controls still follow their wording more than their intent. Next, review your controls against your stack, and time how long a vendor breach takes you to triage.

In the right place

Your controls protect what they were meant to protect, and a no starts a conversation. Keep a public page of your certifications, and practice the first hour after a breach elsewhere.

What does a control change cost in meetings?

At a big company, Sergey said, you can still reinterpret a control. The price is the number of meetings. This calculator counts them.

Calculator

What does a control change cost in meetings?

Six numbers: the control changes you push through each year, the meetings each one takes, the people in each meeting, how long a meeting runs, what an hour of their time costs, and the share of meetings a working demo could replace.

$43,200meeting cost a year
360 hperson-hours a year
180 hhours back a year

One change takes 30 h of people's time, which costs $3,600. A year of changes: 360 h, at a cost of $43,200. A demo that replaces 50% of the meetings gives back 180 h a year.

The calculator counts meeting time only. It leaves out the engineering work of the change itself. The defaults are placeholders: put in your own numbers.

From mathematics to Yugabyte

Sergey’s roles, Yugabyte’s milestones, the industry events from the tape, and this show. Filter by topic.

Timeline

From mathematics to Yugabyte

  1. Assistant professor

    Belarusian State University, to March 2013 (LinkedIn).

  2. Boolba Labs

    Software engineer and project director, to August 2013 (LinkedIn).

  3. Symphony

    Android tech lead (LinkedIn).

  4. Symphony Communication Services

    Goldman Sachs and 14 other financial institutions put in $66 million (Wikipedia).

  5. Security architect

    Security architect and lead back-end engineer at Symphony, to March 2017 (LinkedIn, on this page).

  6. Yugabyte's founders

    Three former Facebook engineers come together to build YugabyteDB (Wikipedia).

  7. MuleSoft goes public

    On the New York Stock Exchange (Wikipedia).

  8. MuleSoft

    Platform security architect, to June 2021 (LinkedIn, on this page).

  9. Salesforce buys MuleSoft

    For $6.5 billion (Wikipedia).

  10. Open source

    Yugabyte releases its commercial features under the Apache 2.0 license (Wikipedia).

  11. Salesforce and Slack

    Salesforce announces it will buy Slack (Wikipedia).

  12. Yugabyte

    Head of security engineering (LinkedIn).

  13. Series C

    $188 million at a $1.3 billion valuation (Wikipedia).

  14. Log4Shell

    Reported in the Log4j logging library and exploited as a zero-day (Wikipedia, on this page).

  15. Episode 17

    Sean Cassidy on the Log4Shell days at Asana (episode page).

  16. Security questions

    Yugabyte's summit session on the questions a CISO asks (YouTube, on this page).

  17. LastPass breach

    User data, billing information and vaults (Wikipedia).

  18. ISO 27001

    For YugabyteDB, YugabyteDB Anywhere and the managed service (Yugabyte).

  19. Episode 31

    Sergey on the show (Podbean, transcript).

  20. Detection tooling

    How the security team chose a SIEM and SOAR tool (Yugabyte).

  21. CIS Benchmark

    The first for a distributed SQL database, Yugabyte says (Yugabyte, LinkedIn).

  22. PCI DSS Level 1

    For the fully managed service (Yugabyte, LinkedIn).

  23. Episode 69

    Riad Wahby on HSMs locked to enclaves (episode page).

  24. Episode 76

    Michael Nov on security at the design stage (episode page).

  25. Meko

    A data layer for multi-agent systems (Yugabyte).

  26. Episode 95

    Pranava Adduri and George Gerchow on a sanctioned path to AI (episode page).

  27. KubeCon

    Yugabyte at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America (X).

What to do this week

Five things, in the order of the episode.

  1. Name the unknown. The next time security says no, write down what it doesn’t understand yet, and set a time to work it out, as in A no means we don’t understand yet.
  2. Write down the intent. Pick three controls, note what each one protects against, and check whether your stack can meet that intent better, as in Reinterpret the control.
  3. Time the first hour. Pick a vendor or library you depend on, and time how long it takes to answer whether a breach there affects you, as in The hardest days.
  4. Publish your answers. Put your certifications and standard security documents on one page, so a questionnaire takes less time, as in Questionnaires from another era.
  5. Get help with it. Our vCISO Services turn controls into decisions engineering can live with, FedRAMP Readiness takes on the framework Sergey ranked first, and 24/7 Monitoring & Response covers detection and response. If you want to talk it through, book 15 minutes with us.

Key takeaways

  1. A no means we don't understand yet

    Security tends to say no when it doesn't know something. Until you hear the firmest no, Sergey said, there is room for a conversation and a reasonable solution.

  2. Compliance is a framework

    Engineers who complain about compliance often misread it, Sergey said. The framework makes sure nothing gets missed, and it takes security past its favorite topics to upgrades, the supply chain and safe releases.

  3. Keep the intent of a control

    An IP allowlist made little sense once Kubernetes made addresses ephemeral. Sergey's team met the same intent with Kubernetes network policies, which he called more secure than the original control.

  4. Balance security and innovation

    Security mitigates risk and innovation takes it, so their goals are radically different. The job is to find the balance, and to place each control where it belongs.

  5. Ask for the business case

    Some customer security questionnaires are 20 years old. Sergey would rather take feature requests from business customers than from their security teams, and he looks for the business justification.

  6. Use an HSM only where it fits

    HSMs are hard to manage and built for a few use cases, such as a public certificate authority. For the rest, Yugabyte uses key management solutions.

  7. Not sure means don't hire

    Everyone in the room has to say yes, and a no comes with a detailed reason.

  8. Stop doing what you don't like

    Sergey's motto: stop, even without an alternative lined up, because you need the time for something else.

Chapters

Tap a chapter to play from there.

Pull quotes

“for the past decade, it's been my primary focus.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“So you face a challenge, and you engineer your way out.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“I primarily focus on DevSecOps and application security.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“The compliance gives you a framework”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“you always assume the worst.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“Security is all about mitigating risks”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“say no if we don't know something.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“there is a room for us to have a conversation and come up with a reasonable solution.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“What is the IP address in that environment? It's just ephemeral.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“it's more secure than the original control was.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“They're not real anymore.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“There are plenty on the market.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“if you say no, I expect justification.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

“if you don't like doing something, stop doing it.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“teach someone about security today.”

Sergey Stelmakh ·

About the guest

Sergey Stelmakh, Head of Security Engineering, Yugabyte

Sergey Stelmakh is head of security engineering at Yugabyte, the company behind the distributed SQL database YugabyteDB, where he focuses on DevSecOps and application security. Before Yugabyte he was platform security architect at MuleSoft, through its acquisition by Salesforce, and an Android tech lead and then security architect at Symphony. He holds a PhD in mathematics from Belarusian State University, where he was an assistant professor.

About the host

Jon McLachlan is co-founder of YSecurity, the on-demand cybersecurity team for startups, and of Cyberbase.ai. The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley is hosted by Jon McLachlan and Sasha Sinkevich. Jon McLachlan on LinkedIn ↗

Context and sources

  • Episode 31 on Podbean: Sergey Stelmakh, Head of Security Engineering at Yugabyte, on Innovation vs Security in Startups. Source ↗
  • Sergey Stelmakh's LinkedIn experience: Yugabyte from June 2021, MuleSoft from April 2017 to June 2021, Symphony Communication Services from March 2013 to March 2017, Boolba Labs from July 2010 to August 2013, and Belarusian State University from September 2008 to March 2013. Source ↗
  • Jon McLachlan on LinkedIn, August 3, 2023: on marrying innovation, which takes risks, with security, which mitigates them. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte blog, January 31, 2024, by Sergey Stelmakh: the CIS Benchmark for YugabyteDB, covering release 2.20 of the self-managed product, with two levels of settings. Source ↗
  • Sergey Stelmakh on LinkedIn, January 31, 2024: thanks to the team behind the CIS Benchmark for YugabyteDB. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte blog, March 14, 2024: PCI DSS Level 1 compliance for the fully managed YugabyteDB service, validated by a Qualified Security Assessor. Source ↗
  • Sergey Stelmakh on LinkedIn, March 14, 2024: congratulations to the Yugabyte team on PCI DSS. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte blog, January 16, 2024: the requirements for SIEM and SOAR tooling behind the managed service, and a gap in Kubernetes support among SIEM tools. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte blog, January 18, 2024: Yugabyte selected the self-hosted version of the open-source tool Wazuh. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte Legal & Trust Center: SOC 1, 2 and 3, ISO 27001 and 22301, PCI DSS, the CSA Trusted Cloud Provider program, GDPR and CCPA. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte on YouTube, October 13, 2022: Top Security Questions: Delight Your CISO and Protect Your Business, from the Distributed SQL Summit 2022. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte blog, May 7, 2026: Meko, a data layer for the knowledge, memory and decision traces of multi-agent systems. Source ↗
  • Yugabyte on X, November 10, 2026: at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon North America 2026. Source ↗
  • Kubernetes documentation, Network Policies: rules for traffic between pods, and between pods and the outside world, enforced by the network plugin. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, YugabyteDB: a transactional distributed SQL database for cloud-native applications, with a PostgreSQL-compatible YSQL interface and a transactional Cassandra-like YCQL interface. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, MuleSoft: first traded on the New York Stock Exchange on March 17, 2017, and acquired by Salesforce in 2018 for $6.5 billion. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Symphony Communication: a messaging service for financial firms, set up in October 2014 with $66 million from Goldman Sachs and 14 other financial institutions. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Slack Technologies: Salesforce announced its acquisition of Slack on December 1, 2020. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, FedRAMP: the US government's program for the security assessment, authorization and continuous monitoring of cloud products and services. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Hardware security module: a physical device that safeguards and manages digital keys, some of which delete their keys when they detect tampering. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Log4Shell: a vulnerability in Log4j reported in November 2021 and exploited as a zero-day. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, LastPass: user data, billing information and vaults were breached in late 2022. Source ↗

Transcript

Automatic transcription. Jon McLachlan hosts this episode with Sergey Stelmakh, head of security engineering at Yugabyte. There is no diarization on the tape, so speaker labels were assigned from the content and checked against reference recordings of each voice from this episode, and a few short lines may sit with the wrong speaker. Names and terms were normalized where the recognizer misheard them (Jon McLachlan, Sergey Stelmakh, Yugabyte, MuleSoft, Salesforce, Symphony Communications, Boolba Labs, Belarusian State University, OWASP, DevSecOps, SDLC, Log4j, LastPass, Kubernetes, FedRAMP, SOC 2, HIPAA, HSM, DigiCert, Datadog). Words in [brackets] are best guesses where the audio is unclear. Answers are transcribed as spoken, with most repeated words and false starts kept. Short backchannels such as "yeah" and "right" are left out where they overlap the other speaker.

Read the full transcript 6,562 words

Jon McLachlan

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Security Podcast in Silicon Valley. I'm here today with a very special guest, Sergey Stelmakh. He is the head of security engineering at a really cool database company called Yugabyte. Before then, he was platform security architect at MuleSoft, which I believe they were [acquired] by Salesforce.

Sergey Stelmakh

Correct.

Jon McLachlan

That's awesome. So you guys see the acquisition process. Before your time at MuleSoft and Salesforce, which became Salesforce, you were the security architect, I would say the head security architect at Symphony Communications. And this is where our paths crossed, way back in the day.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, indeed. It's a lot of fun.

Jon McLachlan

It was a lot of fun. There's some stories there. Before then, you were a software engineer at Boolba Labs.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah. That's [Boolba]. Yeah, yeah. I was doing software engineering and managing projects.

Jon McLachlan

And before then, this is so cool, you were an assistant professor at the Belarusian State University.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yep, yeah, that's true. Yeah, I started my career as a researcher.

Jon McLachlan

And even before that time, and maybe even a little bit of overlapping is your assistant professorship, you were a PhD student of mathematics at the same institute, the Belarusian State University. So welcome to the show, Sergey. It's a great honor to have you. You bring tons of awesome experience to the table, and I'm sure lots of interesting stories.

Sergey Stelmakh

Hey, Jon, thank you for inviting me [for] your podcast.

Jon McLachlan

You've had an interesting journey, and it started off in mathematics, and you were deep in the PhD program, but somehow you ended up in security. And I'm really interested, and I'm sure our listeners would be interested, to just hear a little bit about how did you end up in security?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, for me, it was a very natural transition. As far back as I can remember, I always loved solving puzzles, and that's how I ended up and gravitated towards mathematics and programming, and ended up in university studying applied mathematics. And as a side hustle, I started doing programming as well, and over time transitioned into software engineering full time.

Jon McLachlan

That's a side hustle. That's awesome.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, I started as a side hustle. I always considered only a career in science at that time.

Jon McLachlan

And so you're a self-taught engineer?

Sergey Stelmakh

I got a solid foundation, college and university. As you study mathematics, the programming and software engineering is [a] minor discipline. So yeah, normally it comes shoulder to shoulder. And as I was doing software engineering, I again naturally tended to pick up quite challenging tasks, and that happened to be in the security domain, cryptography in particular. So it was a very natural step for me to move forward into cybersecurity. And yeah, for the past decade, it's been my primary focus.

Jon McLachlan

No, that's incredible. And so with your foundation in mathematics and the overlap with cryptography, and I have to be careful about how I describe that, because if I say crypto, people are going to think Bitcoins and stuff. But the original cryptography.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, [the] true cryptography, not cryptography, crypto mining religion. [No, it's true,] yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. I mean, that's funny. I mean, I do challenge like old institutions, like our financial institutions, but to me, like, cryptography and crypto is always going to mean, like, bit smashing. And that all goes back to mathematics.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yep, indeed.

Jon McLachlan

So you probably had an amazing foundation to build on. It's something that most security folks maybe don't go quite as deep into.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, it definitely helped. Though I've seen people, and I'm sure that's true for you as well, I've seen a lot of different folks in our space, and so this, we all got a very diversified background. So that, you know, to have a PhD in applied mathematics is definitely not a must-have to build a career in cybersecurity.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, definitely not. But it can be one of those steps that you take on your journey, as it was for you. So now at Yugabyte, maybe you'd like to share with our listeners just a little bit about what does Yugabyte do, and what makes it an interesting start? What do you guys do better than anyone else in the world?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yugabyte is a distributed database for cloud-native applications. And we got into technical details, which I assume some of part of your audience is, we love technical details. Yeah, why the world [needs] another database? That's a good question. So Yugabyte is a strongly consistent database, and that's a technical term, with both SQL and NoSQL interfaces. So it's pretty much one database that you can scale, and you can run SQL and NoSQL queries against the same database.

Jon McLachlan

Awesome. Awesome. And it actually solves some really difficult technical challenges with distribution and consistency, and I'm sure performance is high on your list as well. But your role there at Yugabyte is to focus on security. So I'm super curious, how did you end up as the head of security engineering there at Yugabyte? What was that piece of your journey like?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, you pretty much highlighted some of the steps in my career. And before joining Yugabyte, I was with MuleSoft, and I was driving security architecture at MuleSoft. I joined MuleSoft before we went public, and shortly after, we got acquired by Salesforce. And yeah, that was very cool and interesting experience, helping merge security function [from] MuleSoft into Salesforce. That's quite unique experience. It was a lot of fun, and a lot of cool, challenging activities on the way. But as this transition ended, I started looking for [my next chapter], the next chapter in my career.

Jon McLachlan

Yep. You came, you saw, you conquered. And then you're like, what's next for Sergey?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah. Plus, there, I always wanted to work in engineering companies. And engineering, that's the companies with engineering culture. So it's a very broad term. It doesn't mean that run the shop got to be run by engineers. It's rather the way the problems are solved in the company. So you face a challenge, and you engineer your way out. And MuleSoft was an engineering company. Very amazing engineering team. It was really a pleasure to work with the folks. And I just wanted, for the next chapter, I wanted to join an engineering company as well. And guess what? There are no more hardcore software developers that are developers writing and developing databases in this space. So it's very hardcore guys and engineers, and it's a pleasure working with them. So that was definitely a decision factor for me.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, the people that we work with can make a huge difference. And I'm detecting a theme here. And I heard it a little bit of how you got into security, and I heard a little bit of from just going into mathematics in general. But it feels like that you really love hard problems, and then you love the creative, bubbly juices that sort of you have to access in order to solve the problems, and not just solve them, but maybe solve them in a beautiful or elegant way.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, you pretty much know that. It's definitely, my job matches my personality. And I think it's important for everybody's career to make sure that whatever you do is aligned with who you are as a person.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, that's so true. And I love diversity, too, and the differences that everyone brings to the table. It makes it super interesting to build teams and bring different people together, because everyone is going to bring something different to the table. But everyone does bring something to the table. I think you nailed it right there, too.

Sergey Stelmakh

Thank you.

Jon McLachlan

How about a typical day at Yugabyte? What's your focus? How do you contribute to the success of the company? How does security play a role in that?

Sergey Stelmakh

Security domain is very broad. And if you just Google, and I always encourage whoever is joining security space, have this OWASP domain diagram even pinned on your desk. Security domain is very broad. There are like twenty different areas, where cryptography, for example, is just one of them. And in my role at Yugabyte, I primarily focus on DevSecOps and application security. That includes vulnerability management, threat detection and response function, certain security architecture, and secure SDLC activities. So that's, and supporting compliance, that's also part of my daily routine.

Jon McLachlan

That's some challenging space, compliance.

Sergey Stelmakh

It can be, yeah. I feel that in our space, a lot of people misinterpret the compliance. It's, to me, and again, working with the engineers, I hear a lot of them complaining about certain compliance requirements. And it's coming from misunderstanding the concept. The compliance gives you a framework, making sure that you're not going to miss a thing as you harden your organization security posture. Like, I'm a, I love crypto. If I had a chance, I would probably spend most of my day doing just cryptography and interesting, cool things about key management, certificate management. But with having this framework, it forces me to think beyond that. You're thinking about how do you upgrade the software? How do I keep the supply chain secure? How do I roll into production without unnecessary risk?

Jon McLachlan

Yep, absolutely.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, that's, you know the drill, Jon. Yeah. Been in the industry as long as I am.

Jon McLachlan

So what would you say your best day at Yugabyte has been so far?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, I think it's still ahead of me. Frankly, maybe when we go public, that's going to be one of those days.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, when you go public, okay. Amazing.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, yeah, I'm reserving that for that day. My, my joy.

Jon McLachlan

It will be a joyous day indeed. What about the most challenging day that you've had so far [at] Yugabyte?

Sergey Stelmakh

I think it's days, not a day, not [that] day. We are, as you['re] aware, security is a risky business. We take into account a lot of variables and try to come up with quantifiable risk level. We are in [a] risk management business. And when, for example, a breach happens in the industry, notorious examples would be like Log4j and LastPass, every time things like that happen, there is a lot of, the level of uncertainty is quite high. And you got to operate as a security professional under a lot of unknowns. So those days are the most challenging. Like when LastPass compromise happened, yeah, we figured out, in, within an hour, that we're not affected, but that was a very tough hour. You always, if you, there is something that you are uncertain about, you always assume the worst. So those days, they are the most challenging.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, it's tricky sometimes to operate and to make decisions with missing information, or things that we don't know. And just even the ability to stay calm and focused, and not, like, over-the-top optimistic, but positive and compassionate to the human side of everyone's emotions as things unfold, is a sweet spot of what makes a good leader. And it sounds like they're very lucky to have you at Yugabyte.

Sergey Stelmakh

I hope so.

Jon McLachlan

No, absolutely, Sergey. We've worked together for a good chunk of time back in Symphony, and I know that I always felt that way.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, it was a pleasure working with you, [Jon, too].

Jon McLachlan

We had a good team. It was a very good team, and it was the people that made all of the difference. And we were all part of that. We were all in the same boat together, and it was a startup, and we're all running towards the same direction, but we all bring something different to the table. I encourage people to try big companies and small companies, because you get different things and different types of experiences. So they're hard to compare, but I do think that I do prefer the smaller companies.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, that's, I, it, it depends on the stage at your career. Sometimes, after a few small companies, like, I want to join a big shop and over there, and deal with their, work with a big budget rather than scrapping things.

Jon McLachlan

Big budgets are nice.

Sergey Stelmakh

Always, yeah. But yeah, I agree with you, Jon. This combination of small and big companies, I think it's, you get to think, you get to see a lot of different things and be exposed to different functions. In [a] smaller company, this exposure is much bigger than in a big corporation.

Jon McLachlan

Yes, yes. And then the experience at the big companies tends to be very valuable at a small company, because it's what they're missing, and vice versa, too. Like, at a big company, like, all of your experiences from a startup would pay off huge, like, many times over. Like, they have the opposite set of problems, and you always get a [thick] set of problems that you deal with. But you know what? Oftentimes in the security world, people think we have this reputation of being the guys that show up in a meeting, and we're here to say no, and throw a bunch of requirements on the table, and draw out the time to market, the timelines of a particular project, and want to do deep dives into threat models of new features and stuff like this. I've been put in awkward situations like that. And it's always, yes, we have to do the right thing in terms of security, but I've always struggled. Is there perhaps a way to think about security that enables innovation, enables change, and enables people to move fast?

Sergey Stelmakh

That's a good question, and it's a very important topic, I think, in our industry. Actually, I want to mirror this question back to you. What do you think? Is there a way?

Jon McLachlan

Is there a way? I think so. I think so. I hope so. And I'm optimistic about this. And like, I've worked with people on both extremes of that equation.

Sergey Stelmakh

And I've been thinking about it, this problem, for a while, and I'm frankly a bit more skeptical than you are.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, really? Okay.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, let's just think about it. Security is all about mitigating risks, right? You mitigate risk, you're reducing the risk.

Jon McLachlan

We're reducing risk.

Sergey Stelmakh

Innovation is actually quite opposite. It's all about taking risk in order to make a big improvement into a certain space.

Jon McLachlan

That's right.

Sergey Stelmakh

So your goals are radically different.

Jon McLachlan

This is true.

Sergey Stelmakh

And you're probably familiar with this, for everybody in the industry, with this very famous matrix, reversed dependency between security and usability. And you might want to make something usable and [secure], like, it's impossible. So it's one way or another, you got to balance out. And I feel that we, overall, in the [industry], we got to extend it to the same concept, to, like, security versus innovation. It's all about finding the right balance, and letting your organization be innovative and secure at the same time. Because if you not, and we as professionals, our job is to pin this, the security controls, into the right place.

Jon McLachlan

That's right.

Sergey Stelmakh

One of the famous examples would be the recent Google versus ChatGPT situation. Google was a leader in the AI space, and they're losing this battle, and losing the [war] to ChatGPT and OpenAI [and IBM]. Yeah, and Microsoft, yeah, indirectly, indirectly, not. Yeah, there is this big guy in the room, big elephant in the room. But I bet what happened, and I'm going to be a little speculating right now, but some time ago, like five, ten years ago, when Google was the leader, there was a big meeting on their big long table. There were a lot of guys sitting in the Google office. Very expensive meeting for everyone. Very extremely expensive meeting, discussing the future of their AI technologies. And there were a few guys, and I bet there were a few guys from security, sitting in that room saying, oh, you can't do it. It's too risky.

Jon McLachlan

Yep, I could see that happening.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, and then as a result, as a result, now we see Google losing to their competitors. And we can extend this example, and that's what pretty much happened to Tesla. Used to be a leader in self-driving technology, and it's not, and I don't think it's even in top three these days. So at some point, there, the companies became too cautious, and they, they misinterpret certain security risks. And I think, as security professionals, we need to, first of all, we need to acknowledge that's the fact. So we, and I always say that, you were, and actually in the, in, in the question, that we tend to say no if we don't know something. And now I'm probably going to give advice to not the security professionals, but the people that work...

Jon McLachlan

All the product managers, all the product managers that want to know how to, like, circumvent security. Here we go. [What's the secret?]

Sergey Stelmakh

No, when you hear no, it only means that we don't understand. There is an unknown element. So to me, I always say, listen, there is yes, no, and fuck no. As long as you haven't, you didn't see the, you didn't hear the latest, last option, there is a room for us to have a conversation and come up with a reasonable solution.

Jon McLachlan

Yes, no, I love that. I actually just ordered a t-shirt. And on this t-shirt it says, short answer is no. And then the long answer is fuck no. I'm going to buy another one, and I'm going to send it to you.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, get me one.

Jon McLachlan

Yes. You can wear it on all of your Zooms.

Sergey Stelmakh

European large size or US medium.

Jon McLachlan

So that's plus. Okay. Or Australian medium.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah. That's, again, it's a, that's a big question. There is a lot to unwrap here, how you do it properly. If we get to a bit more practical advices or recommendations, I tend to focus more on threat detection and response.

Jon McLachlan

Yes, yes. Okay, so the way that I've navigated that question, and I've been in big companies, I've been in small companies. And in small companies, like, one of the things that you can take advantage of, and that I certainly have taken advantage of in the past, is if you're so small that you have no market share, and you have no customers, and you're just, like, experimenting, and you're the guy on the team, you're the guy in the company, the only guy in the company, maybe, or maybe a gal in the company, that has that security mindset, that cares deeply about things like data privacy and being able to close, like, bigger and bigger deals, maybe, or whatever it is. But if there's no customers, like, there's oftentimes no risk, right? And then, as you release things, and you acquire those customers, and you can predict, oh, we're going to have 100 million users, and we're going to have, and then by year two, we'll have 10 million users. You can just be like, yeah, okay, that's nice, but that's not, odds are it's not going to happen. Just, let's accept the reality of doing an experiment. If you're a startup, you're doing experiments. You are taking risks, big time. And then security, I don't know, in that sense, like, I always try to tie it back into the business and make a business case for security. And just in those particular cases, maybe this is why startups attract, because they do take risks.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, I guess I would rephrase it a little bit. So when they're [a] smaller company, you're not taking risks, you have a better, you have an ability to better interpret security controls.

Jon McLachlan

Yes.

Sergey Stelmakh

So, and you can interpret those security controls that they're still secure for your customers, so that they're still keeping the product secure and robust for your customers, and it's not a burden for your engineering team. The example I would give here, years ago, I've seen [a] security control that, oh, you must whitelist IPs for internal infrastructure. But that was at the time when Kubernetes was becoming a standard to running microservices. What is the IP address in that environment? It's just ephemeral. You got to take that control and reinterpret it. And that became, at that time, we started doing something with, we started using Kubernetes network policies to harden by spirit, and it is even better, and it's more secure than the original control was. But in the big bureaucratic corporations, it's much harder to push it through.

Jon McLachlan

No, that is true. And there's certainly less red tape in the small organizations, and so it's much easier to get something adopted, to start using a new technology, to reinterpret controls quickly. You don't have to go through a bunch of committees. If you're like the one that has the ear in the company around security, you could just maybe suggest something, [try POC], do a demo, and boom, you've just won over the other, like, 20 people or 40 people or whoever is also in the company, which is not something that you can do in a large organization. I mean, you could, but it takes much more effort, takes much more time.

Sergey Stelmakh

It's an interesting experience, though. I've done it both in smaller companies, mid-sized companies, and actually at Salesforce as well. So when I was there, it is possible, it's just a number of meetings that you need to have.

Jon McLachlan

To do that, the cost is number of meetings. Oh my goodness.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, yeah, that's the cost. That's the cost. Yeah, sometimes you just need to get the stuff done. And yeah, I remember, I remember, actually just recalled a very cool project that I had in my MuleSoft days, when we were going through FedRAMP certification. Not sure if you had guests when you discussed that framework, but that's [the one].

Jon McLachlan

Which is the framework?

Sergey Stelmakh

FedRAMP.

Jon McLachlan

FedRAMP. Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay, go ahead. What was your FedRAMP experience?

Sergey Stelmakh

Oh, that was painful and interesting. That's the most, probably, sophisticated security framework that I ever seen. On paper, I got exposed to impact level certification, that's for the Department of Defense in the US. So yeah, those guys are extremely crazy. But from a company-friendly framework, I say FedRAMP is a top-notch. They're, it's the most holistic security framework I've seen. And yeah, it's actually a lot of thoughts, and a lot of security controls, and a lot of engineering work that needs to happen for you to comply with their requirements.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, I remember, like, the amount of detail, and the amount of attention, and, like, the auditing, and it was perhaps one of the most rigorous processes. And on top of that, I think it was AWS, right? They just scrapped their regular AWS accounts, and they're like, okay, if you want to do FedRAMP, you have to use, like, all of these special services, [GovCloud], and that was like years behind. So in reality, your product couldn't even work there.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, it's a quite challenging technical problem. And GCP is, it's much better now. Now there is a more or less feature parity, at least for GCP, Google Cloud, that's the case, or maybe AWS. I didn't reassess it recently, but yeah, it's much better position now.

Jon McLachlan

But you know, like, when you talk about security, you think about, okay, what are we actually protecting? If it's just a big pile of data in, like, Facebook or something, it's, yes, it's people's lives, and it does matter. [It's PII], and there's, like, cyberbullying that can go on, and all sorts of, like, nasty stuff. But when you talk about FedRAMP, when you talk about, like, defense contracts, you're thinking, like, three-letter agencies, those might actually be people's lives on the line if there's a security breach, with everything that's happening in the world today.

Sergey Stelmakh

The conflicts. From their recent exposures and the breaches that we've seen, it's a human factor. It's an internal intruder, or some internal idiot who shared some, over-shared some information. So yeah, but, and partially because technical controls are pretty good.

Jon McLachlan

Yes, yes, they are. It's funny what you can get when you just get somebody on the phone, and you can win them over with a slight sense of trust, or an email.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, security awareness is a key of success here. So you got to spread awareness within your organization, and advertise what we do, what our profession is about. So yeah, that's why your podcast is handy and can spread the word.

Jon McLachlan

Thank you, Sergey. I'm so sorry, you were about to mention how to enable innovation with security. You must feel like the pull, or the drive, to sometimes accommodate, like, what a business is trying to do, needs to do, in terms of its innovation, or its feature sets, or the customers that they're selling to. Sometimes customers can be our best friends. I mean, I don't know exactly who you're selling to at Yugabyte, but in large B2B deals, it's super easy to do security, because in the companies that are trying to sell to larger and larger businesses, you'll have security teams in those other businesses put up requirements and say, where's your SOC 2? Where's your FedRAMP? If you're in HIPAA, where's your [BAA]? They want to know about all of the details. And then you don't have to be the one to be, like, the quote-unquote bad cop. The customer, like, the growth of the company now depends on your security, and your security posture.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah. No, that's, let's have a discussion here. Let's add some spice to our conversation.

Jon McLachlan

Yes.

Sergey Stelmakh

I do work with customers, and I see the requests, the feature requests coming in for security. And it's been in every company I worked, I was exposed to that function. And frankly, some of those requests don't make sense. They're shenanigans, some of them.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. So I actually saw one yesterday that was, like, totally insane. Some potential customer asked us if we were going to ask permission to add a new vendor from this customer. And keep in mind, like, we have 100 customers. So yes, of course, we're not going to ask for 100 people's blessing, add a new vendor. If we're going to add, for example, Datadog or something like that, if we wanted to add that to our tech stack, it's not...

Sergey Stelmakh

Or Yugabyte.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, [you got] Yugabyte. I would love to add [Yugabyte] to our tech stack. I hear it's very secure.

Sergey Stelmakh

Oh yeah, that's just a tip of an iceberg. They often operate with some question, security [questionnaires] from [the] nineties. They haven't been updated, some controls, they just, you read them, and they're, the questions, they don't, just, they're 20 years old. They're not real anymore. We are operating [in a] completely different reality. And so, yeah, I tend to always, [get our], when I get requests like that, try to find a better business justification. So I would rather accept feature requests from business customers rather than security teams of those customers, because they're not in that particular business. They just have a list of requirements, and they roll it to you. Actually, one of their challenging asks that I had to confront was, everybody seemed to be obsessed with their HSM.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, yeah.

Sergey Stelmakh

And yeah, sometimes I actually feel that it's just [a] CISO [fetish], or something like that. It's just...

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, I think they have a booth at the Fulton Street or... Yeah, like, hey, try to set up, try to set up an HSM.

Sergey Stelmakh

No, seriously, if you ever work with HSM, you wouldn't like that technology.

Jon McLachlan

No, of course not.

Sergey Stelmakh

It's very hard to manage. It doesn't work. And it only is designed for a few particular use cases.

Jon McLachlan

That's true.

Sergey Stelmakh

If you're not running, like, DigiCert, those public certificate authority.

Jon McLachlan

Maybe we should share with our listeners, like, what is an HSM, for some of the newer folks in security here?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, HSM stands for hardware security module. Basically, that's a piece of hardware that does cryptographic operations for you. And yeah, it's, physically, it looks like a server, like any old regular rack-mount server. And yeah, it's really hard to operate. If you shake it too much, your keys that are stored on that piece of hardware, they are gone.

Jon McLachlan

You know what it's doing? It's trying to [fail safe].

Sergey Stelmakh

It tries, it tries to, like, the, yeah. And the, the, the, the crazy example, I think all those crypto companies, they actually store their private keys for their crypto in HSM. And yeah, if something happens to those HSMs, the keys are gone. So I, I wonder, yeah, I wonder if you had any guests from, like, Coinbase. What's their backup mechanism for the keys? Because you can't have too many backups, because then it's not, not secured, because you, you, you share your keys.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, you're exposing.

Sergey Stelmakh

It's a risk to your whole business model. And yeah, what's, how they solve this problem?

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, that's a great question, actually.

Sergey Stelmakh

So yeah, the HSM is a nice piece of technology, but there are so limited, so very limited number of use cases for that technology to be used. And I see that everybody seemed to be obsessed with that. Okay, let's add, let's integrate it with HSM. But it doesn't make sense. Like, you guys want to store one secret, and you want me to add a support for HSM to store, [to] manage one particular secret? It's just unbearable. We use key management solutions instead, [like AWS KMS]. There are plenty on the market.

Jon McLachlan

Yep, exactly. All right, oh, let's build a chat system and have it all inside of an HSM, all of the keys saved inside of an HSM. [Does everyone get it?] It does, it does. For all of our listeners, we are, this is what we built at Symphony Communications together.

Sergey Stelmakh

It was [a] great technical project, but maybe for that particular use case, it was [worth doing]. But yeah, that's just a very limited number, yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, it did open up a lot of sales to Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan and BlackRock and all the big names in the industry, in the financial industry, but it never broke out of any of that vertical and was able to grab market share in anything else. And then Slack came along, which was, like, super easy to use, and grabbed the market share.

Sergey Stelmakh

Security versus innovation.

Jon McLachlan

There you go. That's the prime example. Definitely one in the dampened innovation space, maybe. Yeah. I mean, Symphony, it was a special case, because all of the large institutions, they were not only the first customers that Symphony was going after, but they were also the, they're all on the board of directors, and they basically own the company. So it's a double-edged sword if your investors are also your customers, I think.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah. They have a very strong vision, and they, they push in that vision. So yeah, it, it is. I can't agree more, Jon.

Jon McLachlan

I got the sense that you really enjoy tough technical challenges, things that you can engineer your way out of, as you put it earlier. When you're team building, like, what do you look for? Do you have a favorite interview question? Is there, like, any red flags that you want to share, that are like, oh, yep, for sure, maybe not the best fit? Or, like, green flags, where you're like, oh, yes, you fight to the death to bring in the candidate?

Sergey Stelmakh

I think over years, my, my interview toolkit kind of simplified a lot.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, that's good. Mine is, mine too.

Sergey Stelmakh

I just [ask] candidates, just give me your, your top challenges that you worked on, and I let them drown.

Jon McLachlan

That's it. You let them drown.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Is this a Russian expression?

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, it is, it is. It is.

Jon McLachlan

What is it in the authentic, like, original language?

Sergey Stelmakh

So the meaning would be that they're just, that's a good analogy, if they're not good in swimming, they're just going to drown. Very simple approach, and just, you see it right away. So, you, and also, I don't like asking some questions that are, this, or technical questions that a person may not be familiar with. So I let them choose the area they're comfortable with, and have a conversation in that domain. I think it is fair. And also, you see the professional right away. So an interview, to me, it's a conversation between two professionals, and you just see if there is a, it's a good match for you to work together.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, you feel it through, and you make sure that there's positive energy on both sides. And you know it when you see it.

Sergey Stelmakh

And of course, there are multiple rounds, and we also do coding interviews and stuff. So I do expect some technical skills going to be assessed at a different stage.

Jon McLachlan

Sure, maybe by someone else's interview.

Sergey Stelmakh

Right.

Jon McLachlan

And then, like, when you do the huddle, and I assume, like, you would invite, like, most of the folks that would be working with the person together, those inner discussions, if someone raises a concern, is there, like, a process around, like, championing the candidate, or challenging the fit, or it's just, like, a relaxed conversation, maybe?

Sergey Stelmakh

[Ground] rule is, if you're not sure, you do not hire. So that's the rule. I think if there is an uncertainty, so with the hiring, you, yeah, you need everyone in the room to give yes.

Jon McLachlan

Ah, that's [okay]. That's super interesting. That's exactly the same process that I saw [at] Apple. Apple, it was just an AND gate. And so everyone that interviewed the candidate had to say yes, and then they moved forward. I've been in other places, too, where it was, like, someone could raise a concern, but then there could be a champion, and then the champion...

Sergey Stelmakh

I don't know, Jon. Yeah, I don't know. It's not a democracy.

Jon McLachlan

No, it is not.

Sergey Stelmakh

No, [it is]. I mean, I do, if you say no, I expect justification. You can't just say, I don't like their outfit. So you've got to be very reasonable explanation. In practice, you need a lesser explanation when you give a yes than when you actually say no on the interview. So I do expect a very detailed explanation on why you [rejected it], and all the red flags, and what you found.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Everyone has a different interview style, and will ask different questions, and so that sounds like a really healthy approach. Very healthy approach to team building and to interviews. When you team build, is there anything that you do look for, complements with new members?

Sergey Stelmakh

And diversity in skill sets, that's definitely something I'm looking at. And also, for security team, I also look for, I'm building a global team, because in case of security incidents, we need a better time zone coverage. So yeah, my team tends to be quite diverse geographically as well.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, that's great. And then you can get [better]...

Sergey Stelmakh

Not always possible, so it's not a generic advice, but yeah, for me, that was an option, and I love to have this flexibility.

Jon McLachlan

With geographic diversity, you're going to get all sorts of great diverse [themes], just as a natural caveat to that, too. So, that's awesome. Okay, Sergey, if you could go back in time and meet your younger self, and I'm going to let you decide how far back in time you'd like to go, but if you could go back in time, you could meet yourself, and you could give your younger self a piece of advice, anything. Or maybe you would pass on the opportunity. Would you? And what would that advice be?

Sergey Stelmakh

I would love to get a beer with younger myself [and have some fun]. And yeah, it's interesting how they're, you're a different person, [super different] now.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah.

Sergey Stelmakh

I guess, I would probably advise to prioritize mental and physical well-being.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, that's such good advice.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

How would you sell that to your younger self, though? Because I'm sure your younger self would be like, oh yeah, great. Thanks for the advice, Sergey. Older Sergey. You old man.

Sergey Stelmakh

I don't know. Maybe I would miserably fail in giving this advice.

Jon McLachlan

I know I would. I would have [missed it].

Sergey Stelmakh

I, but actually, there is something that I, I actually got a motto, like a catchphrase, not a catchphrase, but rather, what it's, motto, [a motto], yeah. And when I was relatively young in my career, and I'm following it until this day, that's about, if you don't, if there's something you don't like doing, [you] got to stop doing this, even if you don't have an alternative, because you need to free some time in order to do something else. And yeah, I would probably start following that even earlier in my career.

Jon McLachlan

That's really good advice. If you don't absolutely love something, if you don't like doing something, stop doing it.

Sergey Stelmakh

Get yourself bored, and then you'll find something else to do. You'll find it.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. And it doesn't always need to be the same thing all the time. I think people are allowed to change their minds. And I know I've changed my mind several times. [And I've been lucky to] always have that land somewhere in the security space, in a professional sense, but in a personal sense, like, same thing. Same thing. [Very] good advice. I love it. I have this game that I play with myself. It's almost the same as your advice to your younger self there. Your motto is, we know that one day will be our last day. And if you had an opportunity to replay any previous day, and just go through, like, the experiences and that day, like, one more time, like, before your last day, if you would swap that last day with today, for example, if the answer is no, like, if the answer is no, I wouldn't pick this day, it's just not a very good day, I ask myself why. And whatever I come up with on the why answer, I change it. Just change it.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, framed slightly differently, but yeah, that's a good one.

Jon McLachlan

Thank you so much, Sergey, for joining [me on] the show, on the Security Podcast of Silicon Valley. It was a great pleasure to have you on, to hear about your experiences, the philosophies, and have a little bit of a discussion around security versus innovation. Thank you, Sergey.

Sergey Stelmakh

Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me, Jon.

Jon McLachlan

You're always welcome back. Would you like to leave listeners with any final pearls of wisdom?

Sergey Stelmakh

Spread awareness and teach someone about security today.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, that's what we're here for. Okay, Sergey, thank you so much.

Sergey Stelmakh

Thank you, Jon. Thank you for having me.

FAQ

Questions this episode answers

Who is Sergey Stelmakh?
Sergey Stelmakh is head of security engineering at Yugabyte, a role his LinkedIn lists since June 2021. Before that he was platform security architect at MuleSoft from 2017 to 2021, through its acquisition by Salesforce, and an Android tech lead and then security architect at Symphony. He started as a mathematician, with a PhD in mathematics from Belarusian State University, where he was an assistant professor.
What is YugabyteDB?
YugabyteDB is a transactional distributed SQL database for cloud-native applications, developed by Yugabyte. On the tape, Sergey described it as strongly consistent, with both SQL and NoSQL interfaces on one database you can scale. Wikipedia lists a PostgreSQL-compatible interface, YSQL, and a Cassandra-like interface, YCQL, that is transactional.
Can security enable innovation?
Sergey is more skeptical than Jon. Security mitigates risk while innovation takes risk, so the goals are radically different, and the job is to find the balance and put each control in the right place. He also said a no from security usually means it doesn't understand something yet, which leaves room for a conversation.
What does reinterpreting a security control mean?
Keeping a control's intent while changing how you meet it. Sergey's example was an old requirement to allowlist IP addresses for internal infrastructure. In Kubernetes, addresses are ephemeral, so his team used Kubernetes network policies, which he said were more secure than the original control.
Why did Sergey rank FedRAMP first?
He went through FedRAMP certification at MuleSoft. He called it painful and interesting, the most sophisticated security framework he has seen and the top one a company can work with, with a lot of security controls and engineering work. FedRAMP is the US government's program for assessing, authorizing and monitoring the security of cloud products and services.
What is an HSM, and when do you need one?
A hardware security module is a physical device that safeguards keys and performs cryptographic operations. Sergey said HSMs are hard to manage and built for a few use cases, such as running a public certificate authority. For most needs, Yugabyte uses key management solutions, and there are plenty on the market.
How does Sergey hire for his security team?
He asks candidates for the top challenges they've worked on and lets them pick the area. His rule: if you're not sure, don't hire, and everyone in the room has to say yes. A no needs a detailed justification. He also builds a team spread across time zones, for better coverage during incidents.
What happened after the episode?
On January 31, 2024, Sergey announced the CIS Benchmark for YugabyteDB, which Yugabyte calls the first for a distributed SQL database. On March 14, 2024, Yugabyte announced PCI DSS Level 1 compliance for its fully managed database service.
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