Podcast Episode 6

Episode 006 36 min

Prakash Darji, General Manager of Digital Experience at Pure Storage: The Next Frontier of Storage and Security

with Prakash Darji · Pure Storage

0:00 / 36:00

Also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Podbean, Player FM

Episode 6 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley, published July 26, 2021. Host Jon McLachlan talks with Prakash Darji, general manager of the Digital Experience business unit at Pure Storage, now Everpure. Prakash wants every executive to ask how secure am I, since each level of security has a cost. They cover a path from SAP down the stack to storage, hybrid built around applications and data, one gateway for many apps, isolation that costs productivity, apps built for one person, single sign-on prompts and compliance, ransomware and the black money crypto made easy, India's 2016 banknote move as a case study, immutable copies kept for 30 days, time-delayed attacks that wait out the window, the encryption change rate and the data reduction change rate, two approvers rotated at random, DEFCON-style security levels, financial and technical mitigation, an ounce of prevention, finders keepers, Apple and Facebook on privacy, layers of storage security, storage as a service through Pure1, certifications and threat modeling, attack surface first, the 98% of buyers who accept the paperwork and the 2% who dig, the Portworx acquisition, the surface area of Kubernetes, Evergreen, drives headed toward a petabyte and a half, and migrations that could take years.

Episode notes

In this episode of a YSecurity.io production, we sit down with Prakash Darji, General Manager of the Digital Experience Business Unit at Pure Storage, for an insightful conversation about the evolving landscape of storage and security. Prakash brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the table, offering a glimpse into the future of these critical technology sectors as envisioned by one of the industry's leaders.

The discussion kicks off with an exploration of Pure Storage's strategic acquisition of Portworx, a move that underscores the company's commitment to leading in the storage and security domains. Prakash elaborates on how this acquisition enhances Pure Storage's offerings, particularly in addressing the complex needs of containerized applications and cloud-native technologies, which are at the forefront of digital transformation efforts across industries.

Prakash then delves into the pressing issue of ransomware, sharing valuable insights into how businesses can bolster their defenses and recover quickly from such attacks. He emphasizes the importance of resilience and preparedness, highlighting innovative solutions and best practices that Pure Storage offers to help organizations mitigate risks and minimize the impact of security breaches.

Listeners will be treated to Prakash's forward-looking perspectives on the future of storage and security. He discusses emerging trends, the increasing integration of AI and machine learning technologies, and the critical role of advanced storage solutions in securing and managing the exponentially growing volumes of data generated by modern digital activities.

This conversation is not just about understanding the current state of storage and security; it's an invitation to think about the future possibilities and the strategic moves companies like Pure Storage are making to address the challenges and opportunities ahead.

Join us for a lively and informative discussion with Prakash Darji on the future of storage and security. Whether you're a tech enthusiast, a professional in the IT sector, or someone keen on understanding the directions in which these essential technology pillars are heading, this episode offers a comprehensive overview of what lies on the horizon.

Hosted by Jon McLachlan — co-founder of YSecurity.

The deep dive

How secure am I?

Prakash Darji, general manager of digital experience at Pure Storage: hybrid built around apps and data, isolation that costs productivity, ransomware and black money, immutable copies against slow attacks, two keys for every policy change, a price on each level of security, certifications and threat models, the Portworx deal, and drives too big to migrate.

Episode 6 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley came out on July 26, 2021, with Jon McLachlan hosting. The guest was Prakash Darji, general manager of the Digital Experience business unit at Pure Storage, the flash storage company now called Everpure (Podbean, LinkedIn, Wikipedia). The episode is called “Prakash Darji, General Manager of Digital Experience at Pure Storage: The Next Frontier of Storage and Security.”

Two threads run through the talk. One is how storage keeps data safe from attackers who are willing to wait. The other is the question Prakash wants every executive to ask: how secure am I, and what does the next level cost?

This page follows the conversation in order: a section for each part of it, sixteen figures, seven clips from the tape, a LinkedIn post, the full transcript, and five tools: a quiz, a scorecard for slow attacks, a calculator for how far back your immutable copies reach, a timeline, and a to-do list. Where the decodes of the tape disagree on a word, the transcript puts its best guess in brackets, and the page doesn’t quote or retell those words.

Down the stack to storage

Jon read out the path: SVP and general manager of platform as a service at SAP, a senior director role there, a senior architect before that, and senior roles in consulting. LinkedIn fills in the rest. Prakash spent February 2004 to April 2017 at SAP, ending as SVP and general manager of Platform as a Service from July 2014. Pure Storage came next, from June 2018 as general manager of the FlashArray business unit, and from July 2020 as general manager of the Digital Experience business unit (LinkedIn).

Prakash summed up the path as applications, then technology, then cloud platforms, and now infrastructure: down the stack.

“And the challenges in each one of those things are very, very different.”

Prakash Darji, at 1:03

Building a cloud platform taught Prakash a lesson about hybrid. A company with a back office ERP system wants a mobile app for order approval. The app uses cloud development techniques, but all the data sits on premises. So Prakash sees hybrid in terms of applications and data, wherever they run.

“Residency comes from data and applications, not from am I hosting it on Amazon or Azure.”

Prakash Darji, at 1:43

Three cards. SAP, 2004 to 2017: from a junior consultant in field services to SVP and general manager of Platform as a Service. FlashArray: general manager of the business unit at Pure Storage, June 2018 to July 2020. Filled, Digital Experience: general manager of the business unit from July 2020, covering Pure1, Evergreen Services and Pure's subscriptions. Below, four boxes joined by arrows: applications, technology, cloud platforms, and filled, infrastructure. Prakash's own summary of the path, from applications down to infrastructure. Jon read out the SAP roles on the show: SVP and general manager of platform as a service, a senior director role and a senior architect, with consulting before that. Then: "Residency comes from data and applications, not from am I hosting it on Amazon or Azure." Prakash, at 1:43
Prakash's path, as Jon read it out and LinkedIn lists it. Sources: the episode and Prakash's LinkedIn profile.

One gateway for many apps

Jon asked about the biggest data security challenges Prakash had seen. The first is how you approach the real estate. Say a company has 10 applications or 50 data sets on premises and wants a consumer front end in the cloud. Prakash had no patience for wiring each one up point to point.

“Like, you need one gateway on premise, where you can have your trusted certificates, bi-directional connections”

Prakash Darji, at 2:17

The gateway also cuts down the connection ports, because enterprises are complicated. Then come the questions: network security, certificate management and role-based access controls, in a distributed environment with lots of applications and data behind one app at the front.

The example was a sales rep application. What a sales rep needs sits in different systems: an opportunity in Salesforce, a vacation request in Workday, compensation in NetSuite, and an ERP system from SAP. Prakash asked whether you’d want app sprawl on the phone,

“where you have the sales rep have 50 different apps on their phone to do their job”

Prakash Darji, at 3:18

Three boxes joined by arrows: apps and data on premises. Filled, one gateway, for certificates and ports. One front end in the cloud. Below: dozens of applications and data sets on premises, and one consumer front end in the cloud. The gateway holds the trusted certificates and the bi-directional connections, and cuts down the connection ports. Still to solve: network security, certificate management and access controls by role. Filled: the sales rep app, with an opportunity in Salesforce, vacation in Workday, compensation in NetSuite and ERP in SAP.
One gateway on premises between many apps and data sets and one front end in the cloud, as Prakash described it. Source: the episode.

When isolation costs productivity

Prakash’s complaint about phones: too many apps, too much scrolling. Jon pointed to the upside. On the device, apps don’t talk to each other unless they’re built to work together. Prakash’s answer was that this isolation makes for a poor experience. Jon agreed, recalling the swiping it takes to find an app again.

Prakash’s example: a customer meeting sits in Salesforce, and a vacation goes into Workday.

“Wouldn’t it be nice if those apps could collaborate and actually change your meetings?”

Prakash Darji, at 4:21

“That would be nice. In fact, that drives me crazy.”

Jon McLachlan, at 4:25

“security here is being used to destroy productivity”

Prakash Darji, at 4:32

Jon’s answer: the right integrations could bake it in, but that takes work, and it won’t work across every calendar app people use.

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 4:12
About 25 seconds: Prakash on two apps that can't talk to each other. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

An app for each person

Today’s apps are horizontal or vertical: a genomics app, a health app, a banking app, an HR app, a Salesforce app. Prakash expects that to change.

“There is going to be a new economy of persona-based applications in the future”

Prakash Darji, at 5:15

Once platforms as a service make development cheap enough, each person could get an app of their own, machine generated from the apps they use. The hard part is security: the pathways, the personally identifiable information and the connections. Then Prakash turned to single sign-on.

“But every time I get that pop-up to renew my token, I get irritated.”

Prakash Darji, at 5:57

Jon agreed, then gave the other side. The prompt is a security check that the right person still holds the device. Or there’s a compliance reason, such as a SOC 2 Type 2 report that calls for a new check every three or seven days.

“Maybe there’s some compliance reason.”

Jon McLachlan, at 6:17

“But like, look, are there smarter ways to do it?”

Prakash Darji, at 6:30

Ransomware and black money

Prakash switched to ransomware. It was happening in spades, and many people still weren’t paying attention.

“Now, it’s happening for one reason, because we’ve made black money really easy.”

Prakash Darji, at 6:51

Before crypto, hiding money took a careful paper trail, an offshore bank account in the Cayman Islands, and a cottage industry that kept it out of reach of the masses. Crypto made it easy.

Jon pushed back: fix the security holes that let ransomware happen, and leave the economics alone. Prakash saw two sides to it. Protect yourself, or shut down black money. One answer is to ban crypto outright. Prakash’s case study for that kind of move was India, which pulled its large banknotes to go after black money. In Prakash’s telling, the result was a collapse, with people standing in lines.

“And so we have a case study that just attacking it that way didn’t work.”

Prakash Darji, at 8:44

So, back to Jon’s point: you need stronger security.

India announced the move on November 8, 2016. All ₹500 and ₹1,000 notes were declared invalid from midnight, and new ₹500 and ₹2,000 notes were issued in exchange. People had 50 days, until December 30, 2016, to deposit the old notes, and many stood in long queues. A 2018 report from the Reserve Bank of India found that about 99.3% of the money had come back to the banks, and analysts said the effort had failed to remove black money from the economy (Wikipedia).

Ransomware holds a victim’s data hostage until a ransom is paid (Wikipedia). In May 2021, Colonial Pipeline halted its pipeline after a ransomware attack and paid 75 bitcoin, about $4.4 million. On June 7, 2021, the Department of Justice said it had recovered 63.7 of those bitcoins (Wikipedia).

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 6:51
About 35 seconds: Prakash on crypto and ransomware. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Four cards in two rows. Before crypto: a paper trail, an offshore account in the Caymans, and a cottage industry. Filled, with crypto: hiding black money is easy, and that makes ransomware pay. Secure yourself: close the holes that let ransomware in, Jon's side, and where Prakash lands too. Dashed, shut down black money: ban crypto outright, which Prakash's case study says doesn't work. Below: India, November 8, 2016, 500 and 1,000 rupee notes declared invalid, 50 days to deposit them, long queues at the banks. Filled: about 99.3% of the money came back to the banks, and analysts said the move failed to remove black money. Then: "And so we have a case study that just attacking it that way didn't work." Prakash, at 8:44
Ransomware and black money, the two sides Prakash saw, and what India's banknote move did. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Copies nobody can delete

Jon described how storage people tend to think about security: availability, backups, recoverability and access.

“Well, so what’s fascinating is how sophisticated some of the attacks have been.”

Prakash Darji, at 9:12

The first answer was immutable data. On the storage system, you set a policy that keeps data immutable for 30 days. Nobody can delete it, root access included. It costs some extra capacity, which the system keeps small.

“Pay a little bit of a capacity penalty to keep some extra data around”

Prakash Darji, at 9:40

Then the attacks changed.

“So if you introduce a time-delayed attack where you start encrypting things slowly, and you wait till 30 days have passed.”

Prakash Darji, at 9:52

“Now you’ve completely messed up based on the retention policies of 30 days.”

Prakash Darji, at 10:03

Jon brought up dwell time, how long an attacker sits inside before anyone notices. Prakash raised the stakes: what if the delay is five years? Immutable copies alone don’t answer that. You also need to notice when your data is being encrypted, and Prakash named two signals a storage system can watch.

“The encryption change rate, the data reduction change rate.”

Prakash Darji, at 10:32

A write once, read many device holds data that can’t be changed once it’s written, which guards against human error, computer bugs and malware (Wikipedia).

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 9:29
About 30 seconds: Prakash on immutable copies and the attack that waits them out. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A timeline. Day 0: encryption starts, the attacker encrypts a little at a time. Days 1 to 30: copies roll, each day's immutable copy holds some encrypted data, and nobody can delete the copies, root included. Filled, day 31: the window has passed, and every copy left was made after the attack began. Below: immutable copies alone can't answer a delay longer than the window, and Prakash asked about a five-year delay. Filled: watch for encryption while it happens, with the encryption change rate and the data reduction change rate. Then: "Now you've completely messed up based on the retention policies of 30 days." Prakash, at 10:03
A 30-day immutable window, the attack that waits it out, and the two signals Prakash named. Source: the episode.

Two keys for every change

Customers set the protection policies, and they should change them now and then, the way you change a password. That raises a question: who can change them? Someone could spoof a change, or spoof a user. Prakash’s answer was two people, like

“the nuclear reactor with two keys, right?”

Prakash Darji, at 11:15

With two approvers, an attacker has to spoof two people. Rotate who can approve, at random, and spoofing gets harder still.

“So we’re just at the beginning of this ransomware journey”

Prakash Darji, at 11:33

The two-person rule requires two or more authorized people to be present for access and actions, at all times (Wikipedia).

Three boxes joined by arrows: one approver, spoof one person. Two approvers, spoof two people. Filled, rotating approvers, picked at random. Below: protection policies should change now and then, the way passwords do. So who gets to change them? Someone could spoof a change, or spoof a user. Filled: Wikipedia says the two-person rule requires two or more authorized people for access and actions, at all times. Then: "the nuclear reactor with two keys, right?" Prakash, at 11:15
One approver, two approvers, and two approvers drawn at random, for a change to a protection policy. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

How secure am I?

Every protection has a cost, the way insurance does. So Prakash changes the question.

“So you should never say, am I secure? You should always say, how secure am I?”

Prakash Darji, at 11:47

Level zero, one, two, three, four: Prakash compared it to DEFCON levels. Each level costs more in time, software, people and experience, so the real question is when the next level is worth it. Prakash saw the security market as early in its maturity.

“But my prediction is, over the next 10 years, given where the world’s going, this is going to be a very rapidly growing, very maturing market.”

Prakash Darji, at 12:29

DEFCON runs the other way. The alert state of the US armed forces has five levels, from DEFCON 5, the least severe, to DEFCON 1 (Wikipedia).

Jon agreed and made it specific.

“You have to ask the question, are you secure against who or what?”

Jon McLachlan, at 12:53

Prakash answered as an executive who carries the risk.

“I sign off on liability and risk on things I ship”

Prakash Darji, at 13:07

How secure am I, and am I willing to live with that risk and its cost? Prakash compared it to buying insurance. Sometimes the answer is financial mitigation, sometimes it’s technical, and sometimes it’s a bit of both.

“But I can tell you, increasingly, the financial mitigation is becoming less important, and the technology mitigation is becoming more important over time.”

Prakash Darji, at 13:41

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 11:47
About 20 seconds: Prakash on asking how secure, and what each level costs. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Five boxes joined by arrows: level 0, level 1, level 2, level 3, and filled, level 4. Below: each level adds cost, in time, software, people and experience. The question is when the next level is worth it. DEFCON counts the other way, with five levels from DEFCON 5, the least severe, to DEFCON 1, according to Wikipedia. Filled: in Prakash's view, financial mitigation is losing ground to technology mitigation. Then: "So you should never say, am I secure? You should always say, how secure am I?" Prakash, at 11:47
Security levels, each with a cost, as Prakash described them, next to DEFCON. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Prevention over remediation

Jon asked why the shift. Big companies have buckets of money to mitigate with.

“As you get bigger, right, and as your surface attack grows, your insurance premiums get too high.”

Prakash Darji, at 14:00

Prakash put it as an ounce of prevention against a pound of remediation. Jon knew where the phrase came from: Andrew, the CISO. Two months earlier, episode 2 had Andrew Gontarczyk, Pure Storage’s chief information security officer, as its guest. Then Prakash turned the question around and asked for Jon’s prediction.

Finders, keepers

Jon agreed it was early, and saw one model at work in data security on the internet.

“and the conceptual model that I see out there that’s operating is finders, keepers”

Jon McLachlan, at 14:40

“If it’s in my cloud, it’s mine.”

Jon McLachlan, at 14:45

The same goes for data on a device. People get uneasy when data moves across systems, and Facebook, advertising and Google knowing nearly everything show where that leads. Jon’s question: can that basic model change?

Apple, Facebook and privacy

Prakash asked about Apple and Facebook. Apple was locking things down and hurting Facebook’s advertising. Was that about security, politics or the market?

Jon’s answer was privacy, and it starts with Apple’s business model.

“They exist to sell devices, and everything that they do is geared towards selling more devices.”

Jon McLachlan, at 15:33

Consumers buy the devices, so Apple speaks to their values, and privacy is one of them. Facebook wanted to track everything and link it together. Jon tied it back to the app for each person. If that app could log into Facebook, Facebook would take the data and use it for ads.

“Literally, modify your behavior.”

Jon McLachlan, at 16:12

Starting with iOS 14.5, apps have to ask before they can read the device’s advertising identifier. Facebook said in July 2020 that the requirement would likely hurt its ad targeting, and in May 2021, Flurry Analytics reported that 96% of US users had opted out (Wikipedia).

Three cards. The model today: if it's in my cloud or on my device, it's mine, and data that moves makes people uneasy. Apple: sells devices to consumers, so it speaks to their values, privacy among them. Facebook: tracks everything, links it together, and uses it for ads. Below, filled: from iOS 14.5, apps ask before they can read the advertising identifier, and in May 2021, Flurry Analytics reported that 96% of US users had opted out, according to Wikipedia. Then: "If it's in my cloud, it's mine." Jon, at 14:45
Finders, keepers, and two business models, as Jon described them, with what Apple's prompt changed. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Prakash’s next story stays in the transcript.

Paying for privacy

The story ended on a question: how do you get information in the modern era, and how do you know it’s accurate? Jon named alternatives to Google: DuckDuckGo, and browsers built to keep trackers away, such as Brave and Puma Browser. The choice is free software that keeps a close eye on you, or paying for your hardware and getting more privacy.

“And when we buy an Apple phone versus a Google phone, we’re actually voting with our money”

Jon McLachlan, at 18:29

Jon added that the data ends up in storage at the back end, and once it’s in the cloud, someone has to secure it.

“We’re all going to have to solve those.”

Prakash Darji, at 18:48

Jon’s reply: even work in the cloud runs on some piece of hardware in the end.

Layers, and storage run for you

Prakash laid out how Pure approaches it.

“the way we think about it is you need layers, right?”

Prakash Darji, at 18:58

Protect the data on the array. Encrypt data in flight. Use protection policies to make duplicate copies, on a time bound. Keep lower cost tiers for archives. All of that is standard. Then comes network security, and a new piece for Pure.

“one of the things we’re trying to do right now is SaaSify storage”

Prakash Darji, at 19:25

With Pure as a Service, Pure runs and operates the storage for the customer, through a cloud SaaS control plane called Pure1. That means reaching into the walled garden where the customer’s data sits, and that calls for a different threat model.

Defense in depth places layers of security controls throughout a system, so there’s a backup when one control fails or a flaw gets exploited (Wikipedia).

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 18:58
About 40 seconds: Prakash on layers, and on running storage for customers. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Six compartments in two rows. On the array: protect the data. In flight: encrypt it. Copies: by policy. Archive: lower cost tiers. Network: security. Filled, run for you: through Pure1. Below: the first four are standard, in Prakash's words, and then comes network security. When Pure runs and operates the storage for a customer, it works through Pure1, a cloud control plane. Filled: that reaches inside the walled garden where the customer's data sits, so it needs its own threat model.
The standard layers of storage security, as Prakash listed them, and what running storage as a service adds. Source: the episode.

Certified, or secure?

Jon asked whether certifications such as SOC 2 Type 2, FIPS or Common Criteria melt away the security blockers in large deals.

“What’s fascinating is, having certifications doesn’t mean you’re secure.”

Prakash Darji, at 20:14

“A certification is a validation of your processes”

Prakash Darji, at 20:28

To be secure, you need threat modeling, and people who try to hack in. In Prakash’s view, the strongest posture comes from shrinking your attack surface, ahead of patching and chasing critical vulnerabilities.

“It’s a second order problem. The first order problem is just attack surface area.”

Prakash Darji, at 21:22

In a SaaS product, that means exposing the smallest external surface area you can, and designing the communication paths with that in mind. Jon heard simplicity in it.

“Simple systems tend to have less bugs.”

Jon McLachlan, at 22:13

They also tend to have fewer vulnerabilities, and they pass certifications more easily, because there’s less to test. Episode 21 comes at the same point from fuzz testing: an industry that sells certifications while software stays insecure.

Threat modeling identifies potential threats, such as structural weaknesses or missing safeguards, and prioritizes the countermeasures (Wikipedia). An attack surface is the sum of the points where an unauthorized user can try to get data in or out, or take control (Wikipedia). Common Criteria is an information security standard, adopted as ISO/IEC 15408 (Wikipedia).

Two cards. A certification: validates your processes, with SOC 2 Type 2, FIPS and Common Criteria as examples. Filled, security: threat modeling, people who try to hack in, and a small attack surface. Below, a numbered list. 1: first order, the attack surface, and the bigger it is, the more vulnerabilities. 2: second order, bugs and fixes. 3: in SaaS, expose the smallest external surface, and design the communication paths with that in mind. Then: "A certification is a validation of your processes" Prakash, at 20:28
What a certification checks, and what makes a product secure, in Prakash's order. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

The 2% who ask hard questions

Jon asked how a general manager decides what to do when a customer’s security team asks for X, Y and Z. Build it, pass on it, or leave it to engineering and sales?

“And 98% of the time, people aren’t as sophisticated as they seem to be.”

Prakash Darji, at 23:06

Do the certifications, produce a 400-page SOC report, a Common Criteria report and a FIPS report, and

“bury the RFPs in a pound of paper”

Prakash Darji, at 23:23

Most people go away satisfied. Jon called it covering liability: due diligence done, certifications in hand. Check the boxes, move forward. The challenge is finding the sophisticated buyer, the 2%. That buyer might find a vulnerability you’d otherwise pay pen testers to find. In Prakash’s words, that’s

“someone who’s going to do it for you for free”

Prakash Darji, at 24:07

“Like, as a GM, I’m like, this is the customer I want.”

Prakash Darji, at 24:12

There’s no way to secure a product without real world scenarios. Jon liked the idea of learning from the customer to make the product better.

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 23:00
About 35 seconds: Prakash on the paperwork most buyers accept. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards. The 98%: accept the paperwork, a SOC report of 400 pages, a Common Criteria report, a FIPS report. Filled, the 2%: ask hard questions, and might find a vulnerability for free. Below: for most buyers, Jon called it covering liability, with due diligence done and boxes checked. Filled: Prakash wants the 2%, because a product gets secure through real world scenarios. Then: "Like, as a GM, I'm like, this is the customer I want." Prakash, at 24:12
The 98% and the 2%, as Prakash split the buyers. Source: the episode.

Portworx joins Pure

“Pure Storage bought Portworx for what, 370 million?”

Jon McLachlan, at 24:45

Portworx focused on storage as a service for containers, and it brought customers and a team of about 100 to 120 people. Jon asked how an acquisition balances the new team’s autonomy with Pure’s security maturity.

Prakash’s good news: Pure didn’t buy Portworx too early in its cycle. It was the leader in its market segment, with a fairly mature product. Some things work better together, starting with support.

“You’re famous for your world-class support.”

Jon McLachlan, at 26:10

Pure prioritized container monitoring based on Portworx, shipped or shipping in Q2. It gives container storage the same troubleshooting, remediation and root cause work that Pure’s flash storage already had.

Pure Storage bought Portworx in September 2020 for $370 million. Wikipedia describes it as a provider of Kubernetes-based cloud-native storage and data management platforms (Wikipedia).

Three cards. The deal: September 2020, $370 million, for Kubernetes-based cloud-native storage, according to Wikipedia. The team: about 100 to 120 people, plus customers, as Jon put it. Filled, better together: container monitoring based on Portworx, with Pure's support behind it. Below: Jon's question, how to keep a new team's autonomy and raise its security maturity. Prakash's answer: Portworx came in mature, the leader in its market segment.
Portworx inside Pure, as Jon and Prakash described the deal. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Kubernetes and its surface area

“It’s not about the security posture of Portworx per se.”

Prakash Darji, at 26:55

Portworx itself is mature. The concern is everything around it: Kubernetes, the open source ecosystem, its distributions and its projects. That adds up to a large surface area of source code, repositories and plugins to secure.

“there’s going to be entire companies that come up in the industry”

Prakash Darji, at 27:28

Kubernetes is like any early-stage open source project. Linux was like that in its early days, with open questions about what goes into a package and into the consolidated ecosystem. Jon agreed that companies would pop up around Kubernetes security. Prakash had already seen a few startups using observability for security, with models built through data science.

Kubernetes is an open-source container orchestration system for automating software deployment, scaling and management, first designed by Google (Wikipedia).

Four compartments: Kubernetes, the core. Distributions, many of them. Projects, across the ecosystem. Plugins and repositories. Below: an open source project in its early stage, the way Linux once was. Prakash's prediction: entire companies around Kubernetes security. Filled: already seen, startups that use observability data for security, with models built through data science. Wikipedia: an open-source container orchestration system, first designed by Google.
Why Kubernetes needs its own security companies, as Prakash saw it. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Go for all of it

Jon asked about the target market: small and midsize businesses, or bigger enterprise deals with more stickiness and more money per deal.

“Look, I think it would be unfortunate if Pure Storage did anything but disrupt the entire industry and go for all of it.”

Prakash Darji, at 29:09

Prakash’s case rests on Evergreen. Buy 500 terabytes, and you never pay for that capacity again. It isn’t a financial program, and it doesn’t involve data migrations.

“So we’re the only company that has reduced the GDP spend in storage.”

Prakash Darji, at 29:46

“You’re eating your own market.”

Jon McLachlan, at 29:56

Prakash agreed, and added that nobody else was doing it. All price bands, all segments, everywhere: in Prakash’s view, the value is strong enough to go for world domination.

Wikipedia dates the Evergreen subscription services to 2015 and Evergreen//One, storage as a service, to 2018. Over 97% of the arrays the company ever sold are still in use because of the upgradeable architecture, and subscription annual recurring revenue passed $1.1 billion in fiscal 2023 (Wikipedia).

Listen · Prakash Darji on episode 6, from 29:18
About 35 seconds: Prakash on Evergreen and the market. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Three figures. 500 TB: buy it once, and you never pay for that capacity again. 97%: of the arrays the company ever sold are still in use, according to Wikipedia. $1.1 billion: in subscription annual recurring revenue, fiscal 2023, according to Wikipedia. Below: it isn't a financial program, and it doesn't involve data migrations. Filled: Prakash's case for going after every segment of the market. Then: "You're eating your own market." Jon, at 29:56
Evergreen as Prakash described it, with what Wikipedia adds. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Drives too big to move

Storage is sticky. It’s hard, it takes time, and people don’t like moving data. Prakash cited a Wikibon forecast for the cost per terabyte of SSDs around 2026. Disks were at 18 and 20 terabytes, near the end of Moore’s law, with maybe 24 to 30 ahead.

“This year, we’ve got a 24 terabyte and a 48 terabyte DirectFlash drive”

Prakash Darji, at 31:07

Next could come 144 terabytes, and with PLC flash, a 1.5 petabyte drive. Jon thought of the AI industry, which runs on data.

“Today, more data gets generated and thrown away than stored.”

Prakash Darji, at 31:50

Data gets stored once storing it is cost effective. Play that forward: 1.5 petabyte drives, systems of 100 or 1,000 petabytes, and dual-controller storage systems with 10 to 50 gigabytes of bandwidth. Moving that data could take five to 10 years.

“That’s completely not viable.”

Prakash Darji, at 32:41

The limit is the controller architecture, and a faster network doesn’t fix it.

“Data is going to get so big, you can’t afford data migrations.”

Prakash Darji, at 33:07

Then you rely on something like Evergreen, and Prakash asked who else has that. The arithmetic backs the worry: 1,000 petabytes at 10 gigabytes a second takes 100 million seconds, about 1,157 days, at full speed with nothing else on the wire.

Four bars on one scale up to 1.5 petabytes. Disks today: 18 to 20 TB. Filled, DirectFlash that year: 24 and 48 TB. Next, as Prakash expected: 144 TB. Dashed, with PLC flash: 1.5 PB. Below: systems of 100 or 1,000 petabytes, with 10 to 50 GB a second of bandwidth per dual-controller system. Filled: 1,000 PB at 10 GB a second takes 100 million seconds, about 1,157 days, at full speed with nothing else on the wire. By Prakash's estimate, a migration takes years, and Evergreen is the way to skip it.
Drive sizes as Prakash listed them, and the time it takes to move a big system. Source: the episode.

Optimists, pessimists and a black box

Jon credited Pure Storage with essentially the first enterprise-grade all-flash storage, and with a vision for a new generation of data and services.

“That’s the goal, right? You want to put data to work.”

Prakash Darji, at 33:54

It comes down to performance, density and cost. Jon asked whether Pure’s culture of ambition shapes how it thinks about security. Prakash hadn’t given it much thought, but saw three types among security people. The optimist, which is how Prakash sees Jon. The pessimist, for whom the world is falling and everyone is attacking everyone. And the person for whom security is a mystery.

“What does it smell like? What does it look like? What are its attributes?”

Prakash Darji, at 35:02

It’s like asking what the cloud is. A location? A puffy thing? For most people, security is a black box, with no clear definition.

“Most technologists don’t understand it.”

Prakash Darji, at 35:40

Jon’s take: most find it at least mildly amusing, a black box they bump into now and then.

“And then you get folks like me who have built careers around”

Jon McLachlan, at 35:55

Prakash had a word for that.

“you’re a unicorn, man.”

Prakash Darji, at 36:03

Three cards. The optimist: Prakash puts Jon here. The pessimist: everything is under attack, all the time. Filled, the mystified: what does it smell like? A black box with no clear definition. Then: "you're a unicorn, man." Prakash, at 36:03
The three kinds of security people, as Prakash described them. Source: the episode.

What happened after the tape

Pure Storage is now Everpure. The company renamed itself in February 2026 to reflect a shift toward data management. In June 2025 it had introduced the Enterprise Data Cloud (Wikipedia).

Prakash’s business grew. LinkedIn lists Prakash as general manager of the Digital Experience business unit since July 2020. It covers Pure1, Evergreen Services, Pure-as-a-Service and the data management teams, described as “a $2B+ subscription business” (LinkedIn).

1Touch joins Everpure. In February 2026, Everpure acquired 1Touch, which Wikipedia calls “an innovator in data intelligence and orchestration” (Wikipedia). On May 11, 2026, Prakash welcomed 1touch.io and its data discovery and classification, for data in SaaS applications, on premises, in the cloud or at the edge (LinkedIn).

Ownership over residency. On September 15, 2026, Prakash wrote about rethinking data sovereignty: “It’s not about residency, but about ownership.” The episode opened on residency too, in Down the stack to storage.

Prakash on rethinking data sovereignty around ownership.

Prakash Darji · September 15, 2026
Prakash's post on data sovereignty, with a link to an interview. View on LinkedIn.

The post links an interview in The Data Wire, “As AI Uncouples Data From Applications, Storage Becomes The Foundation For Sovereign AI,” dated September 14, 2026. The page says Everpure sponsored it. One line from it fits Drives too big to move: “Data doesn’t like being moved. It likes being accessed.” (The Data Wire).

An advisor to Graphio.ai. Since April 2026, Prakash has also advised Graphio.ai, which LinkedIn describes as a new company using AI for process compliance (LinkedIn).

Pure Storage on this show. Episode 2 had Andrew Gontarczyk, Pure Storage’s chief information security officer, on building a security team. Episode 74 had Scott Dietzen, Pure Storage’s chief executive from 2010 to 2017, on Augment Code.

A timeline. June 2025: Enterprise Data Cloud, Pure Storage introduces it. Filled, February 2026: Everpure, a new name, and the 1Touch acquisition. April 2026: Graphio.ai, Prakash becomes an advisor. May 11, 2026: 1touch.io, Prakash welcomes the team to Everpure. Filled, September 15, 2026: data sovereignty, Prakash writes that it's about ownership.
After the tape: a new name, an acquisition and a post on data sovereignty. Sources: Wikipedia, LinkedIn and The Data Wire.

Did you catch it? A seven-question quiz

Seven questions from the episode. Each answer links the moment in the transcript or its section.

Quiz · seven questions

Did you catch it?

Pick an answer to see whether you caught it.

  1. Where does residency come from, in Prakash's view of hybrid?

    a. "Residency comes from data and applications, not from am I hosting it on Amazon or Azure." Transcript, 1:43.

  2. What sits between the apps on premises and the front end in the cloud?

    c. Enterprises are complicated, so one gateway handles the certificates and connections. See One gateway for many apps.

  3. How does a time-delayed attack get past 30 days of immutable copies?

    b. "So if you introduce a time-delayed attack where you start encrypting things slowly, and you wait till 30 days have passed." Transcript, 9:52.

  4. Which two signals did Prakash name for spotting encryption?

    a. "The encryption change rate, the data reduction change rate." Transcript, 10:32.

  5. What question should you ask about security, according to Prakash?

    c. "So you should never say, am I secure? You should always say, how secure am I?" Transcript, 11:47.

  6. What does a certification validate?

    b. "A certification is a validation of your processes" Transcript, 20:28.

  7. Why can Pure go after every segment, in Prakash's view?

    a. Buy 500 terabytes, and you never pay for that capacity again. See Go for all of it.

Could you survive a slow attack?

Eight questions on whether an attacker who waits could outlast your copies, built from the episode. Each tip links the section behind it.

Scorecard · eight questions

Could you survive a slow attack?

Answer for the data you can least afford to lose. If two answers fit, pick the lower one.

  1. How long do your immutable copies last, compared with how long an attacker could go unnoticed?

    • We don't keep immutable copies
    • A fixed window, shorter than our worst dwell time
    • Longer than our worst dwell time, and reviewed

    An attack can wait out a 30-day window. See Copies nobody can delete.

  2. Can one admin, root included, delete those copies or shorten the window?

    • Yes
    • Only with a second approval
    • No, nobody can

    In Prakash's example, root access can't delete the copies. See Copies nobody can delete.

  3. Do you watch for slow encryption, such as a jump in the change rate or a drop in data reduction?

    • No
    • On some systems
    • Yes, with alerts someone answers

    Prakash named the encryption change rate and the data reduction change rate. See Copies nobody can delete.

  4. Who can change a protection policy?

    • Any admin
    • One named person
    • Two people, picked at random

    Two keys, with the approvers rotated at random. See Two keys for every change.

  5. Do you know how long an attacker could sit in your systems before anyone notices?

    • No idea
    • A rough guess
    • Measured, from tests or past incidents

    Jon's question was dwell time. See Copies nobody can delete.

  6. Do you know which level of security you're paying for, and what the next one costs?

    • No
    • Roughly
    • Yes, with a cost for each level

    Ask how secure you are, and price each level. See How secure am I?

  7. Is your attack surface written down: endpoints, open ports, plugins?

    • No
    • In part
    • Yes, and we keep cutting it down

    Attack surface first, bugs second. See Certified, or secure?

  8. Beyond certifications, do people try to break in?

    • No, certifications only
    • A yearly pen test
    • Regular tests, and we welcome customers who probe

    Prakash wants the buyers who find things. See The 2% who ask hard questions.

The attack can wait you out

An attacker who waits can outlast your copies. Start with immutable copies nobody can delete, kept longer than your worst dwell time.

Copies without alarms

Your copies help, but a slow attack could go unnoticed. Watch the change rates, and put two people on every policy change.

Ready for a slow attack

Keep the window longer than your dwell time, test the alarms each quarter, and keep cutting the attack surface.

How long can your copies reach back?

Immutable copies cost capacity, and the cost grows with the window. This calculator estimates the extra capacity for a window of your size, and what reaching back five years would take.

Calculator

How long can your copies reach back?

Four numbers: how much data you protect, how much of it changes each day, how many days of copies you keep, and your data reduction ratio.

20.0TB of extra capacity
20%of the protected data
1,217TB to reach back 1,825 days

Keeping 30 days of immutable copies of 100 TB that changes 2.0% a day, at 3.0 to 1 data reduction, takes about 20.0 TB more, 20% of the data. An attack that waits longer than 30 days outlasts every copy. Reaching back 1,825 days would take about 1,217 TB.

The 30 days and the five-year delay come from the tape. The other defaults are placeholders. The math is an upper bound: it assumes each day's changes land on new blocks and shrink by the same ratio as the data. Copies that overwrite the same blocks cost less, and a slow attack needs detection as well as a long window.

From SAP to Everpure

Prakash’s path, Pure Storage, the field around them, and this show. Filter by topic.

Timeline

From SAP to Everpure

  1. SAP

    Prakash joins as a junior consultant in field services (LinkedIn).

  2. Os76

    John Colgrove and John Hayes found the company that becomes Pure Storage (Wikipedia).

  3. BusinessObjects

    Senior director of product management for BusinessObjects Planning & Consolidations, to October 2010 (LinkedIn).

  4. Out of stealth

    Os76 emerges as Pure Storage (Wikipedia).

  5. Platform as a Service

    SVP and general manager at SAP, to April 2017 (LinkedIn, on this page).

  6. Evergreen

    The Evergreen family of subscription services launches (Wikipedia, on this page).

  7. Pure Storage goes public

    25 million shares for $425 million (Wikipedia).

  8. India's banknotes

    India declares its ₹500 and ₹1,000 notes invalid. About 99.3% of the money comes back to the banks (Wikipedia, on this page).

  9. A new chief executive

    Charles Giancarlo takes over from Scott Dietzen (Wikipedia).

  10. Evergreen//One

    Storage as a service launches (Wikipedia).

  11. FlashArray

    Prakash joins Pure Storage as general manager of the FlashArray business unit, to July 2020 (LinkedIn).

  12. StorReduce

    Pure Storage's first acquisition, for $25 million (Wikipedia).

  13. Compuverde

    Pure Storage buys the file storage company (Wikipedia).

  14. Digital Experience

    Prakash becomes general manager of the Digital Experience business unit (LinkedIn).

  15. Apple's prompt

    Facebook says Apple's tracking prompt would likely hurt its ad targeting (Wikipedia, on this page).

  16. Portworx

    Pure Storage buys the Kubernetes storage company for $370 million (Wikipedia, on this page).

  17. Colonial Pipeline

    A ransomware attack halts the pipeline, and the company pays 75 bitcoin (Wikipedia).

  18. Episode 2

    Andrew Gontarczyk, Pure Storage's chief information security officer (episode 2).

  19. This episode

    Prakash on the show (Podbean).

  20. Enterprise Data Cloud

    Pure Storage introduces it (Wikipedia).

  21. Episode 74

    Scott Dietzen, Pure Storage's chief executive from 2010 to 2017, on Augment Code (episode 74).

  22. Everpure

    Pure Storage renames itself Everpure and acquires 1Touch (Wikipedia, on this page).

  23. Graphio.ai

    Prakash becomes an advisor (LinkedIn).

  24. 1touch.io

    Prakash welcomes 1touch.io to Everpure (LinkedIn).

  25. Data sovereignty

    Prakash's post on ownership and data sovereignty (LinkedIn, on this page).

What to do this week

Five things, in the order of the episode.

  1. Check your window against dwell time. Compare how long your immutable copies last with how long an attacker could go unnoticed, as in Copies nobody can delete. The calculator shows what a longer window costs.
  2. Watch for slow encryption. Alert on jumps in the change rate and drops in data reduction, the two signals Prakash named.
  3. Put two keys on policy changes. Require two approvers, rotated at random, for any change to a protection policy, as in Two keys for every change.
  4. Price each level of security. Ask how secure you are, write down what the next level costs, and decide when it’s worth it, as in How secure am I?. The scorecard shows where to start.
  5. Get help with it. Our 24/7 Monitoring & Response team watches for attacks in progress, Penetration Testing shows what an attacker can reach, and a vCISO can own the program. If you want to talk it through, book 15 minutes with us.

Key takeaways

  1. Hybrid is about apps and data

    Prakash sees hybrid in terms of applications and data. Residency follows them, whichever cloud hosts them.

  2. One gateway for many apps

    Put the trusted certificates and the bi-directional connections in one gateway on premises, and cut down the connection ports. Then work out network security, certificate management and access controls.

  3. Isolation can cost productivity

    Apps walled off from each other make a worse experience. In Prakash's example, a Salesforce meeting and a Workday vacation can't talk to each other, and security works against productivity.

  4. Crypto made ransomware pay

    Prakash traces ransomware to black money that crypto made easy to hide. Going after black money directly failed in Prakash's case study, so the answer is stronger security.

  5. Immutable copies need detection

    Copies nobody can delete, root included, are the first line. A slow attack can wait out the window, so watch the encryption change rate and the data reduction change rate.

  6. Two keys for every policy change

    Require two approvers for any change to a protection policy, and rotate them at random, so an attacker has to spoof two people.

  7. Ask how secure, then price it

    Ask how secure you are, level by level. Each level costs more in time, software, people and experience, so decide when the next one is worth it.

  8. Certifications check processes

    A certification validates your processes. Security comes from threat modeling, people who try to hack in, and a small attack surface, with bugs as a second order problem.

  9. Welcome the buyer who digs

    Most buyers accept the paperwork. The 2% who ask hard questions may find vulnerabilities for free, and Prakash wants them as customers.

  10. Data too big to move

    With drives headed toward a petabyte and a half, a migration could take years. Prakash's answer is Evergreen, which upgrades in place.

Chapters

Tap a chapter to play from there.

Pull quotes

“Residency comes from data and applications, not from am I hosting it on Amazon or Azure.”

Prakash Darji ·

“security here is being used to destroy productivity”

Prakash Darji ·

“But every time I get that pop-up to renew my token, I get irritated.”

Prakash Darji ·

“Now, it's happening for one reason, because we've made black money really easy.”

Prakash Darji ·

“And so we have a case study that just attacking it that way didn't work.”

Prakash Darji ·

“Pay a little bit of a capacity penalty to keep some extra data around”

Prakash Darji ·

“So if you introduce a time-delayed attack where you start encrypting things slowly, and you wait till 30 days have passed.”

Prakash Darji ·

“The encryption change rate, the data reduction change rate.”

Prakash Darji ·

“the nuclear reactor with two keys, right?”

Prakash Darji ·

“So you should never say, am I secure? You should always say, how secure am I?”

Prakash Darji ·

“You have to ask the question, are you secure against who or what?”

Jon McLachlan ·

“But I can tell you, increasingly, the financial mitigation is becoming less important, and the technology mitigation is becoming more important over time.”

Prakash Darji ·

“If it's in my cloud, it's mine.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“Literally, modify your behavior.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“What's fascinating is, having certifications doesn't mean you're secure.”

Prakash Darji ·

“It's a second order problem. The first order problem is just attack surface area.”

Prakash Darji ·

“And 98% of the time, people aren't as sophisticated as they seem to be.”

Prakash Darji ·

“Like, as a GM, I'm like, this is the customer I want.”

Prakash Darji ·

“Look, I think it would be unfortunate if Pure Storage did anything but disrupt the entire industry and go for all of it.”

Prakash Darji ·

“Data is going to get so big, you can't afford data migrations.”

Prakash Darji ·

About the guest

Prakash Darji, General Manager, Digital Experience Business Unit, Pure Storage

Prakash Darji is general manager of the Digital Experience business unit at Everpure, formerly Pure Storage, a role LinkedIn dates to July 2020. The unit covers Pure1, Evergreen Services, Pure-as-a-Service and the data management teams. Before that, Prakash ran the FlashArray business unit from June 2018 to July 2020, and spent 2004 to 2017 at SAP, ending as SVP and general manager of Platform as a Service. Since April 2026, Prakash has also advised Graphio.ai.

About the host

Jon McLachlan is co-founder of YSecurity, the on-demand cybersecurity team for startups, and of Cyberbase.ai. The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley is hosted by Jon McLachlan and Sasha Sinkevich. Jon McLachlan on LinkedIn ↗

Context and sources

  • Episode 6 on Podbean: Prakash Darji, General Manager of Digital Experience at Pure Storage: The Next Frontier of Storage and Security. Source ↗
  • Prakash Darji on LinkedIn: general manager of the Digital Experience business unit since July 2020, general manager of the FlashArray business unit from June 2018 to July 2020, SAP from February 2004 to April 2017, and an advisor to Graphio.ai since April 2026. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Everpure: formerly Pure Storage, founded as Os76 in 2009, public in October 2015, Evergreen in 2015 and Evergreen//One in 2018, Portworx for $370 million in September 2020, renamed Everpure and buying 1Touch in February 2026. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Ransomware: malware that holds a victim's data hostage until a ransom is paid. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, 2016 Indian banknote demonetisation: announced November 8, 2016, deposits until December 30, 2016, and about 99.3% of the notes back in the banks. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack: May 7, 2021, a ransom of 75 bitcoin, and 63.7 bitcoins recovered by the Department of Justice. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Write once read many: storage where data, once written, can't be modified. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Two-person rule: access and actions require two or more authorized people at all times. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, DEFCON: five levels of readiness for the US armed forces, from DEFCON 5, the least severe, to DEFCON 1. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Identifier for Advertisers: from iOS 14.5, apps ask before they can query the advertising identifier, and Facebook's objections from July 2020. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Defense in depth (computing): layers of security controls throughout a system. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Threat model: identifying and enumerating potential threats, and prioritizing countermeasures. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Attack surface: the points where an unauthorized user can try to enter or extract data. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Common Criteria: an information security standard, adopted as ISO/IEC 15408. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Kubernetes: an open-source container orchestration system, first designed by Google. Source ↗
  • Prakash Darji on LinkedIn, May 11, 2026: welcoming 1touch.io to Everpure. Source ↗
  • Prakash Darji on LinkedIn, September 15, 2026: rethinking data sovereignty around ownership. Source ↗
  • The Data Wire, September 14, 2026, sponsored by Everpure: As AI Uncouples Data From Applications, Storage Becomes The Foundation For Sovereign AI, with Prakash Darji. Source ↗

Transcript

Automatic transcription. Jon McLachlan hosts this episode with Prakash Darji, general manager of the Digital Experience business unit at Pure Storage. There is no diarization on the tape, so speaker labels were assigned from the content and checked against reference recordings of each voice from this episode, and a few short lines may sit with the wrong speaker. Names and terms were normalized where the recognizer misheard them (Jon McLachlan, Prakash Darji, Pure Storage, Portworx, Pure1, FlashArray, FlashBlade, DirectFlash, Evergreen, SAP, BusinessObjects, Workday, NetSuite, Kubernetes, Wikibon). Words in [brackets] are best guesses where the audio is unclear, and [...] marks words no decode made out. Speech is transcribed as spoken, though many repeated words and false starts are left out, and so are short backchannels such as "yeah" where they overlap the other speaker.

Read the full transcript 6,192 words

Jon McLachlan

Welcome to the Security Podcast of Silicon Valley. I'm here today with a special guest from Pure Storage, Prakash Darji, the general manager of digital experience there at Pure Storage. Thank you so much for joining me.

Prakash Darji

Jon, thanks for having me.

Jon McLachlan

But just to give our listeners a little bit of background, before [Pure Storage], you had spent some time with SAP as their SVP and general manager of platform as a service. And at SAP as a senior director of product [management, BusinessObjects] Planning and Consolidations, as a senior architect, coming up through the engineering ranks, I see. And lots of senior roles in consulting before that. And you studied computer science at the University of Illinois. Very nice.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, so look, I had a pretty fun background, but I tend to like to think that, you know, I worked my way from kind of applications to, you know, technology to cloud platforms. That's kind of how, and now I'm in infrastructure, right? So I work kind of my way down, down stack, not upstack. And the challenges in each one of those things are very, very different. So, you know, when we were building a cloud platform, for example, and someone's got their back office ERP system and they want to build a mobile application for order approval, well, you probably want to use cloud application development techniques or platform [as a service] techniques, but all the data is sitting on-prem. So, you know, I think I've always had this view of hybrid not being location centric, but being application and data centric. Right. And so, and there are a lot of security challenges that kind of come from those, that view of the world, saying, you know what? Residency comes from data and applications, not from am I hosting it on Amazon or Azure.

Jon McLachlan

So what have been some of the biggest data security challenges that you've seen?

Prakash Darji

First thing is how you have to approach the real estate. So in an application development world, if you've got 10 applications or 50 data sets on premise, and you want to build like a consumer application or a consumer front end in the cloud, right? Point to point is shitty. Why would you do that? You know what I mean? Like, you need one gateway on premise, where you can have your trusted certificates, bi-directional connections, you know. You need to streamline the connection ports, because in an enterprise, things are complicated. Right. So how do you deal with network security? How do you deal with certificate management? How do you deal with role-based access controls? How do you deal with that in this distributed environment where you have lots of applications, lots of data, but one app on the front end that's consumer centered? Right. For example, what if I wanted to build an application called the sales rep application? And think about everything a sales rep needs to do their job. That could be create an opportunity in a Salesforce system, but it could be log a vacation request in Workday. Right. It could be, let me check my compensation in my NetSuite billing system, right? Or my SAP ERP system.

Jon McLachlan

Yep. Yep.

Prakash Darji

But do you want to have the mobile app sprawl, where you have the sales rep have 50 different apps on their phone to do their job? Or would you just like a, you know, as a sales rep, would you just like a sales rep app, and you could do all your tasks organized? You got one place to go. Dude, the problem with these phones is you've got so many different fricking apps. I spent just a ton of time scrolling. It's like the crappiest experience. Yeah. [...] securing that landscape, right? It's just nuts, the way the world works today.

Jon McLachlan

Well, I mean, at least on the device, we have the separation between, you know, the apps are not talking to each other unless they're explicitly, like, collaborating.

Prakash Darji

But for the isolation, that isolation makes for a shitty user experience. Does it? Right.

Jon McLachlan

I mean, I'm with you that the shitty user experience, you have to swipe, swipe, swipe, and you have to look at, look through everything, and like, oh, where did that app just go? I just searched for these apps. I don't know.

Prakash Darji

But honestly, like, let's say you have a customer meeting in your Salesforce CRM system, and you've gone into your Workday app and logged the vacation. Wouldn't it be nice if those apps could collaborate and actually change your meetings?

Jon McLachlan

That would be nice. In fact, that drives me crazy.

Prakash Darji

Isolation creates a worse experience for the sales rep, right? And security here is being used to destroy productivity, right?

Jon McLachlan

Well, I mean, if you get the right integrations, and you know what calendar you want to use, like, you could bake that in. But you're right. That takes work and takes effort. And then it's not going to work across all of the different calendar apps that everyone might be using. So.

Prakash Darji

Well, so again, that's when you think about these persona-based applications, right? The world hasn't moved there yet. This is more of a future thing. Applications aren't persona centric yet. They're horizontal or they're vertical. It's like, here's your genomics app, here's your health app, here's your banking app, right? Or it's like, here's your HR app, here's your Salesforce app. It's horizontal or vertical.

Jon McLachlan

Uh-huh.

Prakash Darji

There is going to be a new economy of persona-based applications in the future, once application development, platforms as a service are making application development cheap enough, where you should be able to get a Prakash app. And if you could build it based on data science and discovery of the apps I use, you know, if you really solve the security challenges in the right way, you could discover my thing and machine generate the Prakash app, and secure the pathways in terms of how you're discovering it, what the personally identifiable information is, what the connections are, and work that back, right? Like, right now, we think about single sign-on as great. But every time I get that pop-up to renew my token, I get irritated. So irritated.

Jon McLachlan

It's, I agree 100%. Like, interruptions to the flow of my day are not welcome. I know that they mean well, that it's there for a security check, make sure, oh, let's see if Prakash is still in control of the device or the phone or whatever. Maybe there's some compliance reason. Someone had a SOC 2 report, SOC 2 Type 2, that had to be pushed through, and you needed to have another check every three days or every seven days or whatever it is.

Prakash Darji

Yeah. But like, look, are there smarter ways to do it? Right. Are there smart, like, for example, like, you know, let's switch gears a little bit. You talk about ransomware, right? Ransomware is the thing that's happening in the industry. Everyone's very scary.

Jon McLachlan

Yep.

Prakash Darji

It's very scary, right? You see it, like, it's amazing still how many people aren't even paying attention to it, but it's happening in spades. Now, it's happening for one reason, because we've made black money really easy. The whole crypto industry has made black money really easy. So the easiest way to solve ransomware, right, like prior to crypto, you needed to be really smart with your paper trail to have the offshore bank account in the Cayman Islands and cover your trail. And there's a whole cottage industry that made it not available to the masses. Now crypto has made it so easy to hide black money, which is allowing for ransomware.

Jon McLachlan

Well, I mean, maybe you could make the case that we should actually be solving the security holes that are allowing for the ransomware to happen, not blame the economics.

Prakash Darji

That, well, look, we can look at it from two sides, right? You can either secure yourself and protect yourself by shutting down black money. Right. And it's the China answer: kill crypto. Right? We don't take crypto in this country because you don't take crypto. You don't. And like, if you just demolish crypto. If you want crypto, if you're using crypto, you're up to no good, huh? Yeah, but you're evil if you're using crypto, right? That's the China answer, right? Now, the good news is we have a case study on how that worked, right? India did that. And it wasn't crypto, it was pre-crypto. But the case study was, India said, there's so much black money with counterfeit bills that we're going to completely eliminate all the bills. So they sent an email overnight, not an email, a notification, went to public radio, public broadcast, saying, all your money is no good. You have 30 days to trade it into the bank.

Jon McLachlan

Wow.

Prakash Darji

And it was a shit show. Like a colossal collapse of the economy, right? People were standing in lines, my money's no good, like the whole thing, right? They devalued paper. And so we have a case study that just attacking it that way didn't work. So then, back to your point, you probably need to have a stronger security profile. Right. Right. In terms of, exactly, exactly.

Jon McLachlan

And Pure Storage has a very strong security profile in that regard, right? Like, when you talk to storage folks about, you know, what does data security mean? Oftentimes they think about availability, backups, recoverability, access, these sorts of things, right?

Prakash Darji

Well, so what's fascinating is how sophisticated some of the attacks have been. So historically, the thing was, okay, we created this new capability saying, let's have a immutable data, right? We have created safe modes here. Data is immutable. Right. That sounds great. On your storage system, you can say, you know, you can set a policy saying your data is immutable for 30 days. You can't delete it. Root access can't delete it. We're going to keep a copy of it. All of that, right? Pay a little bit of a capacity penalty to keep some extra data around, but we do that very, very efficiently. But then, what if you have time, like, now the attacks have gotten more sophisticated with time bound, right, like time delay. So if you introduce a time-delayed attack where you start encrypting things slowly, and you wait till 30 days have passed.

Jon McLachlan

Sure.

Prakash Darji

Right? Now you've completely messed up based on the retention policies of 30 days.

Jon McLachlan

Right. I mean, if your dwell time is.

Prakash Darji

How [soon] does it stop? What if there's a five-year time delay? Right, like, where's the industry going in terms of sophistication and these things? Right. So the only way to start doing it is not just saying, I'm going to have this immutable protection, but you now need to start discovering when your data is encrypted. The encryption change rate, the data reduction change rate. Like, there's a lot of things built into the system that allow you to get smarter on the time-delayed approach. And then when customers now have these ability to set policies, how do you change those policies? Right. Because part of your security posture is always changing what you do. The longer, it's like you're changing your password. You leave it the same long enough, you know something's going to happen. The same thing applies with your protection policies. Right. And then who can change them? Because someone could spoof changes. And if they could spoof changes and spoof users and do that, is it okay to say, hey, you need the nuclear reactor with two keys, right? You need this person to approve and then the other person to do it, because then they can spoof two people. So then you've got to start getting into rotating random, you know, who could do it in the approval chain. Right. Yeah, start eliminating the spoofing attacks, right? So we're just at the beginning of this ransomware journey. Right. And the hierarchy of how people need to think about it is a cost and a protection. There's a cost for your insurance. So you should never say, am I secure? You should always say, how secure am I? Am I at level zero security? Level one, level two, level three, level four? Like, this is DEFCON security levels, right? Like, what level? And every level has an incremental cost and time or software or, you know, people or whatever, right? Experience. Right. So, and what's the ROI on? When's it worth it? When's it not worth it, is the question. Right. So as I think about, as I think about the security space, we're at the beginnings of the maturity level here, right? People are talking about, am I secure or not? Like, it's so immature in terms of the maturity curve. But my prediction is, over the next 10 years, given where the world's going, this is going to be a very rapidly growing, very maturing market.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, absolutely. I agree 100%. Every time I hear that question, am I secure? Like, the first thing that pops into my mind is, well, probably not. You know, the more sophisticated answer, and the better answer, is to make it specific. You have to ask the question, are you secure against who or what? Not just, am I secure? It's just like you're pissing in the wind if you ask that question.

Prakash Darji

100%. But how does the executive think about it, right? As an executive, I'm an executive, right? I sign off on liability and risk on things I ship at [Pure Storage].

Jon McLachlan

Yep.

Prakash Darji

And for me, the way I think about that problem is, I'm like, okay, how secure am I? And am I willing to deal with the risk and the cost profile? Like, that's how I approach every problem. It's like how I buy an insurance policy for myself at home, right? I got two kids. Like, they got to go to college. Do I need term? Do I need universal? Like, it's a very similar thought process.

Jon McLachlan

Yep.

Prakash Darji

Right. Sometimes there's financial mitigation, sometimes there's technical mitigation.

Jon McLachlan

Or a bit of both.

Prakash Darji

Bit of both. Bit of both. But I can tell you, increasingly, the financial mitigation is becoming less important, and the technology mitigation is becoming more important over time.

Jon McLachlan

Why is that? Like, why does that shift? Because very successful companies, I would imagine, have, like, buckets of money that they can use to mitigate.

Prakash Darji

As you get bigger, right, and as your surface attack grows, your insurance premiums get too high. An ounce of prevention is versus a pound of remediation, right? Like, it's.

Jon McLachlan

I know exactly where that phrase is coming from. That CISO, Andrew.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, exactly. You know, so that is the world that I think things are going to, right? So, I don't know. It's interesting. How about you, though, man? Like, you've been doing a bunch of different things. What's your prediction in terms of where the world's going?

Jon McLachlan

That is a great question. I think you're spot on, in that we're very early on in this journey. I look at data security in general out there on the internet, and the conceptual model that I see out there that's operating is finders, keepers. If it's in my cloud, it's mine. If it's on my device, it's mine. And people get a little bit weird when the data moves around, it moves across different systems. And we're starting to see the implications of that now with, like, Facebook and advertising and Google knowing pretty much everything. So there's a big question, can we change that basic conceptual model that's operating underneath the hood? Can you.

Prakash Darji

Apple, Facebook thing? What's your prediction in terms of what's going on there, and why?

Jon McLachlan

Like, Apple versus Facebook?

Prakash Darji

I mean, it's like the whole Apple locking things down to screw Facebook's advertisement. Like, is that a security thing? Is that a politics thing? Is that a market?

Jon McLachlan

That's privacy. No, that's privacy, right? Like, Apple exists, I mean, Apple's business model is very straightforward. They exist to sell devices, and everything that they do is geared towards selling more devices. And they occupy the space in the market that protects our privacy as consumers, because we're the ones buying these devices. So, as consumers, they want to speak to our values, and privacy is absolutely a value. And so Facebook wanted to track everything and link everything together. And this gets back to your question earlier of, like, could there just be a Prakash app? And could that have everything that Prakash would ever want to do, like, with an app? Would it be able to log into Facebook? And then, if Facebook has access to all of these other things, they're just going to take that data and use it to advertise to you. Literally, modify your behavior. They're going to try their damnedest to get you to buy that new pair of sneakers that will help you with the next round of deadlifts or whatever.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, it's funny. What I found, I got two children, right? 11-year-old and an eight-year-old right now. And it's amazing that we listen to YouTube a lot, and they know a lot of the songs and the jingles and the targeted YouTube advertisements that come. Right. And the other day, like, you know, I was like, my back hurt. My son's like, you should consider blah, blah, blah. That will help with your back, right? Like, I'm like, how do you know that? He's like, I heard it in a commercial. So kids are super, like, you know, he ignored the part where, with all the side effects that they say super fast at the end, right? But, like, what's fascinating is I had to explain to him the entire concept of advertising is meant to brainwash you and is not fact-based.

Jon McLachlan

Right, absolutely.

Prakash Darji

So I'm like, how do you desensitize and educate yourself, and desensitize yourself to marketing? Right. This is, like, the only way to deal with that. [...] Is it possible? I think it is, right? Like, I'm educating my children, like, [...] But I'm educating them that, you know, not everything you see on TV or read on the internet is real.

Jon McLachlan

This is good. I think every parent should do this. And you sound like a very good dad.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, so, but part of it is this, then. How do you get information in the modern era? And how do you know it's accurate?

Jon McLachlan

Well, Google is certainly helping with that. But there's alternatives, right, to Google. There's DuckDuckGo, preserving our privacy. And now there's all of these browsers that are coming out that are helping us enjoy the benefits of the internet without all of the trackers, like, sneaking up behind us. And so there's Brave out there, there's Puma Browser, which is a newer one. Depending on which way it swings, would you rather have software for free that is tracking you and keep a close eye on you? Or would you rather just pay for your piece of hardware and then enjoy a stronger sense of privacy? We all get to make that choice. And when we buy an Apple phone versus a Google phone, we're actually voting with our money, like, which direction the future is going to go, right? It'll be super interesting, but either way, you need storage in the back end. Like, all of those security problems of, once you have the data in the cloud, you're going to have to secure it.

Prakash Darji

We're all going to have to solve those.

Jon McLachlan

And even if you're running stuff in the cloud, you know that's eventually going to hit some piece of hardware. You never escape that.

Prakash Darji

Yeah. So, look, the way we think about it is you need layers, right? Like any security, right? You have levels of layers. You need to protect the data, kind of, on array. You need to encrypt data in flight. You need protection policies to make duplicate copies. You need, you know, ways to do that in a time bound. You need lower cost tiers for archival purposes. All of those things that are standard exist. But then there's the network security portion. But if you wanted to SaaSify it, right, one of the things we're trying to do right now is SaaSify storage. So if Pure as a Service, let us run and operate it for you, based on a cloud SaaS control plane called Pure1. Right. That's kind of one of our business initiatives. So that means that we're going to be reaching into the walled garden of where your data sits and working on it. And yeah, that's a different security threat model when you're doing threat modeling there. Right. It's a different game. Right. And that's the new trajectory that we're embarking on as a company.

Jon McLachlan

And so do you find that certifications like SOC 2 Type 2 or FIPS or Common Criteria, do any of these things help melt away the security blockers that show up when you're trying to close large deals or large accounts on your new SaaS?

Prakash Darji

You know what? What's fascinating is, having certifications doesn't mean you're secure.

Jon McLachlan

That's very true.

Prakash Darji

Having certifications gives someone comfort that you've tested, right? Like, it's a process. A certification is a validation of your processes, like [SOC 2], right? It's not a validation that you're secure.

Jon McLachlan

So it's operationally, you know, together.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, exactly. Right. You can pass a certification as long as you have strong operational processes. Right. The way you need to secure is, you know, threat modeling. So you need to do threat modeling. You need to have people hack and try to find the [holes]. Do you know what I mean? That's the only way. And the securest posture doesn't come from OS patching and, like, critical vulnerabilities and the way people think about the thing. It comes from reducing your surface real estate. The number one way you can secure your product is reduce the surface real estate of your product. After that, you can deal with bugs and fixes and all of those things. It's a second order problem. The first order problem is just attack surface area. Bigger your surface area, the more vulnerability you will have. Right. So, and how do you think about this in a SaaS world? Well, you have to expose the smallest external surface area, right? For attack. And that means the way you think about the communication paths and the security has to use that lens first. And that's the approach that we're taking.

Jon McLachlan

No, that sounds spectacular. And it doesn't surprise me at all, because Pure Storage is full of world-class engineers. And so that it just so happens to be the case that that's how you would come up with the simplest possible system that fits the bill, right? We're talking about simplicity here.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, 100%. Yep.

Jon McLachlan

Simple systems tend to have less bugs. They tend to have less security vulnerabilities associated with them. They're easier to pass the certifications, because there's less to test. Like, all of that sounds like top-notch goals.

Prakash Darji

But that's the approach.

Jon McLachlan

So every once in a while, though, you must bump into a customer or a potential customer, and a deal is being drafted, and then you interact with the security team in that other company, and they ask for X, Y and Z. Like, how do you know whether to prioritize X, Y and Z or pass on it? Do you just leave it up to the engineering teams and the sales teams to figure it out? Or, as a GM, do you find that you have to make tough calls sometimes on situations like that?

Prakash Darji

Well, look, I find that there's sophisticated environments and unsophisticated environments. And 98% of the time, people aren't as sophisticated as they seem to be. So if you do the certifications and you produce documentation, right, you do the thing, here's my 400-page SOC report, here's my Common Criteria report, here's my FIPS report, you just bury the RFPs in a pound of paper. 98% of people go away and say you're secure. Has nothing to do with real security, right? That's the unsophisticated human being, but most of the world is unsophisticated.

Jon McLachlan

So it's just covering liability. Yes, we did our due diligence. Yes, they have the certifications.

Prakash Darji

100%.

Jon McLachlan

Okay, check the boxes, move forward.

Prakash Darji

So the challenge is, you know, the needle in the haystack problem. How do you find the sophisticated buyer? And [...], like, when you find the 2%, you should welcome it, because it's like, wow, this person might be smart enough to find a vulnerability in our project. Instead of paying HackerRank or, like, you know, paying people for pen testing and other things, you now have someone who's going to do it for you for free.

Jon McLachlan

Yep.

Prakash Darji

Like, that's brilliant. Like, learn something new. Like, as a GM, I'm like, this is the customer I want. Like, I'd be happy to have that, because they're actually going to find things. Like, there's no way to secure a product without real world scenarios.

Jon McLachlan

And I love putting yourself in a position of learning from the customer and always striving to make the product better. Yeah. And to find it, you know, valuable to bump into the customer that actually cares and asks those sophisticated questions. I love that.

Prakash Darji

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

So you recently acquired Portworx. As a company, Pure Storage bought Portworx for what, 370 million? So Portworx was a company that was focused on storage as a service in the container space. I think they had, they brought with them a bunch of customers, a team of what, about 100 people, 120, in that neighborhood?

Prakash Darji

Yeah, about that.

Jon McLachlan

So here they are. They're now part of Pure Storage. When you go through an acquisition, there is some sense where you want them to keep their own autonomy. They've just been pouring their blood, sweat and tears into this product and solving this one very specific problem, and they're being welcomed into this bigger group at Pure Storage. In terms of security, oftentimes smaller companies will not have the operational effectiveness or maturity, as we were talking about earlier. Sometimes security gets thrown into that bucket. Has there been smooth sailing in that department with the, you know, balancing, let them keep their autonomy, but also bring them up in terms of the maturity level? Or maybe they came in already pretty operationally mature.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, you know, what I found is, the good news is we didn't get them too early in the cycle, where, you know, they were the leader in their market segment with a fairly mature product, right? Which is great. That's a great place to be in. Right. So the [Portworx] product provides that. There are things that are better together as a company. So one of the things we prioritized was, we have world-class support.

Jon McLachlan

You're famous for your world-class support.

Prakash Darji

Right. We've done it based on our usage in [Pure1]. So one of the things we prioritized, and now have shipped in Q2, are shipping in Q2, is our container monitoring in [Pure1], right, based on Portworx, right? So we've brought that together, so you can get the same kind of troubleshooting, remediation, root cause, all the things that you need to look at in a container storage world, the same way you could on a [FlashArray] or FlashBlade. So that allows us to bring the power of our support to bear without a lot of overhead, and continuing to develop out the application development and container storage ecosystem. So those types of things are things where you find a fairly good win-win. What's fascinating is this, right? It's not about the security posture of Portworx per se. Portworx actually is very, very mature. But on the curve of surface area and real estate, when you take a look at Kubernetes and the open source ecosystem, and the distributions and the projects that exist across that wide ecosystem, holy crap, is that a large surface area of source code and repositories and plugins to secure. It's incredible. [...] It's incredible. Like the amount of [...] perhaps even, there's going to be entire companies that come up in the industry around, you know, Kubernetes security, just because it's a large surface area. Right. And it's like any early stage open source project. It's got all the trappings and the makings. Linux was like that in the early days of, like, what's in the package? What's going into the consolidated open source ecosystem? What's not? It's so distributed right now, and it's developing at such a fast pace, that the surface area is very large.

Jon McLachlan

Awesome. Well, I have no doubt that we're going to see some companies pop up around Kubernetes security. I'm sure that they're already starting to.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, I've seen a few startups that are doing, actually, interestingly enough, they're using observability for security. They're like, look, the easiest way to secure it is build, like, a polygraph model based on data science of identifying things. They're like, you can't secure this real estate. It's impossible. So they're like, let me go ahead and identify where, like, what the highest priority things to [tap]. Right. And they're building kind of threat models and different things with polygraph, [polymorphographic] models, in a very data science oriented way, based on observability. So that's one I've seen, a set of companies start doing that in container security.

Jon McLachlan

Nice. I imagine that we'll see more and more of that.

Prakash Darji

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

In terms of the target market, though, with Portworx now in the mix there at Pure Storage, is your long-term vision for Pure Storage to go after the SMB market, or maybe you see that as already saturated, or you want to go more enterprise, go after the bigger fish, close less deals, but more stickiness and more money per deal?

Prakash Darji

Look, I think it would be unfortunate if Pure Storage did anything but disrupt the entire industry and go for all of it.

Jon McLachlan

Go for all of it.

Prakash Darji

Yeah, like, you know what I mean? Like, my viewpoint is, like, all of the stuff that I see from our competitors out there is terrible. And we have this innovation, you know, like, Pure's major value as a company stems from the Evergreen architecture, where if you buy 500 terabytes of data, you're never paying for that ever again. That's not a financial program. That's not data migrations. That's, like, the major innovation. So we're the only company that has reduced the GDP spend in storage.

Jon McLachlan

You're eating your own market.

Prakash Darji

100%. [Healthy] cannibalism happening, 100%. So with that, and no one else is doing that, if, with that, if you can't take the whole market, all price bands, all segments, everywhere, we've got a problem, right? Like, I think it's strong enough as a value prop to go for world domination. Now, storage is sticky, it's hard, it takes time, people don't like moving data, containers are new, there's a bunch of variables. But when you just boil it down to first principles, like, this company's got a trajectory that's fairly large, and a large market that you can go after. Now, if you follow cost curves of what's going on in storage, I think Wikibon said in about 2026, your cost model for per terabyte raw on SSDs will be cheaper than [disk]. If you take a look at the disk market today, you get 18 and 20 terabyte disks. And, you know, it's kind of at the end of Moore's law. You might get to 24 to 30. This year, we've got a 24 terabyte and a 48 terabyte DirectFlash drive, like single SSD drive on QLC. And you could probably get to 144. Right, when PLC comes out, you might even be able to get to, like, a 1.5 petabyte drive, like SSD drive. Like, we're at the beginning of the technology curve, right? Now think about storing that much data on a single drive. And the cost per terabyte will be so low. Think about the amount of data you could store [and] access. That's going to happen in the next decade.

Jon McLachlan

That would be important for a lot of industries. I'm thinking the AI industry, which is entirely data.

Prakash Darji

Today, more data gets generated and thrown away than stored. And it's only going to get stored when it's cost effective enough to store it. Now, if you play that out, and that happens, and let's say you have 1.5 petabyte drives in the future, and you've got, you know, I don't know, 100 petabyte or, you know, thousand petabyte systems, and based on your network bandwidth, you know, storage systems with a dual controller architecture, what, you get 10 to 50 gigabytes bandwidth? Right. Like, without the bandwidth, you could spend five to 10 years doing a data migration if you don't have a technology like Evergreen. That's completely not viable. What's going to happen in the industry when the density goes that hard? And network, like, think networking bandwidth might go to one gig, 10 gig, whatever, but you're still bounded by your controller architectures and storage systems. It's not about the network. Right. So at that point, it all becomes about bandwidth to do data migrations on that size of data. Data is going to get so big, you can't afford data migrations. And when that happens, you're going to have to rely on something like Evergreen. And who else has that? That's the question.

Jon McLachlan

Well, I love [that] Pure Storage is continuing, you know, this disruptive and very aggressive approach to revolutionizing storage, right? Because Pure Storage was the first company to come up with essentially enterprise-grade flash storage, like all-flash storage devices, way back in the day. That's kind of what they were famous for. And continuing this trend with, under your leadership, with that vision, to enable a new generation of data and services based on that data. [So] maybe we won't have to throw away all that other data.

Prakash Darji

That's the goal, right? You want to put data to work. Performance, density and cost, man. It comes down to that.

Jon McLachlan

That uncompromising ambition is just part of the culture there at Pure Storage, isn't it?

Prakash Darji

Yep.

Jon McLachlan

Do you think that that culture plays a role in how [Pure Storage] also positions itself in terms of the intersection of culture and security?

Prakash Darji

You know, it's something I haven't given a lot of thought to. What I would state is, the security folks that you meet, there's kind of two or three types of people, right? It's a weird personality breed. There's the optimist. I would characterize you as the optimist, right? You see the world kind of [optimistic lens].

Jon McLachlan

Yes.

Prakash Darji

Right. There's the pessimist that says that the world is falling and everyone's attacking everyone and everything, right? And very, very scary. And then I think there's the person that kind of just looks at security as something that is mysterious, right? It's like one of those things. It's like, how do you define security? I don't know. What does it smell like? What does it look like? What are its attributes? I don't know. That's kind of a nebulous thing. It's like, what is the cloud? What does it smell like?

Jon McLachlan

I love that.

Prakash Darji

You know, I mean, like, what is the cloud? I don't know. Is it a location? Is it a puffy thing? Is it a, like, you know, what is it? Like, you know what I mean? Like, security is one of those topics that, like, most people kind of look at it like the mysterious thing. But it's like, it's kind of that black box over there. Someone's telling me I need to [patch] some bugs, so I do it. You know what I mean? Like, there's no real clear definition of security. So it's hard to say what is the culture intersection of security, because it's so mysterious. Most technologists don't understand it.

Jon McLachlan

I think most find it at least mildly amusing, if nothing else. But yeah, they treat it as perhaps a black box you get to bump into every once in a while. It can be interesting and fun and exciting. Yep. And then you get folks like me who have built careers around [playing] around with that black box. So.

Prakash Darji

That's why you're a unicorn, man.

Jon McLachlan

I appreciate that, Prakash. Well, hey, this has been a most entertaining and delightful discussion. Thank you so much for coming on the Security Podcast of Silicon Valley. As Pure Storage progresses, and we'll have to bring you back on.

Prakash Darji

Cool. Thanks. Yeah. Great talking.

Jon McLachlan

No, thank you.

FAQ

Questions this episode answers

Who is Prakash Darji?
When this episode came out, Prakash Darji was general manager of the Digital Experience business unit at Pure Storage, now Everpure, a role LinkedIn dates to July 2020. Before that, Prakash ran the FlashArray business unit from June 2018 and spent 2004 to 2017 at SAP, ending as SVP and general manager of Platform as a Service.
What is a time-delayed ransomware attack?
An attack that encrypts data slowly and waits until the immutable copies have aged out, say past a 30-day retention window, so every copy left holds encrypted data. On the episode, Prakash asked what happens with a five-year delay.
How can a storage system spot ransomware while it runs?
Prakash named two signals a storage system can watch: the encryption change rate and the data reduction change rate.
Why use two approvers for changes to a protection policy?
Someone could spoof a change or spoof a user. With two approvers, an attacker has to spoof two people, and rotating the approvers at random makes it harder still. Prakash compared it to a nuclear reactor with two keys.
Does a SOC 2 or FIPS certification mean a product is secure?
Prakash's answer was no. A certification validates your processes. Security comes from threat modeling, people who try to hack in, and a smaller attack surface.
What did Pure Storage pay for Portworx?
$370 million, in September 2020, according to Wikipedia. Portworx made Kubernetes-based cloud-native storage, and on the episode, Prakash called it the leader in its market segment, with a fairly mature product.
What is Pure Storage's Evergreen?
On the episode, Prakash described it as buying capacity once, say 500 terabytes, and never paying for that capacity again, with no data migrations. Wikipedia dates the Evergreen subscription services to 2015.
What happened to Pure Storage after the episode?
It renamed itself Everpure in February 2026 and acquired 1Touch, a data intelligence company, the same month. Prakash's LinkedIn shows the Digital Experience role continuing, with the 1touch.io integration among its jobs.
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