Podcast Episode 33

Episode 033 44 min

Elizabeth Nammour, Co-Founder and CEO of Teleskope, Navigating Data Security Frontiers

with Elizabeth Nammour · Teleskope

0:00 / 44:00

Also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Podbean, Player FM

Episode 33 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley, published November 1, 2023. Host Jon McLachlan talks with Elizabeth Nammour, known as Lizzy, co-founder and CEO of Teleskope, who worked on data security at Airbnb as the GDPR and the CCPA arrived. Lizzy describes her first task there, finding the PII in every column of a data warehouse by hand, how she landed in security by chance, building a product from pain the team felt, learning to sell, her best and worst days, interview questions with no trick algorithm, green and red flags, honesty with buyers, investors and hype, optimism, a go-to-market that starts top-down, findings delivered through APIs, single-tenant SaaS, how Teleskope works alongside Drata and Vanta, mystery databases, and the documentation tool she wishes someone would build. Jon tells the story of an install script that failed.

Episode notes

Join us on a journey into the forefront of data security innovation in this captivating episode of a YSecurity.io production, featuring Elizabeth Nammour, Co-Founder and CEO of Teleskope. Elizabeth, or Lizzy as she's known, brings a wealth of experience and a deep passion for data security, honed during her time at Airbnb. There, she played a pivotal role in developing strategies to protect personally identifiable information (PII), ensuring compliance with GDPR, CCPA, and other critical data security regulations.

Teleskope stands as a testament to Lizzy's commitment to advancing data security, leveraging artificial intelligence to offer protection by default. Through her leadership, Teleskope is redefining how businesses secure their most sensitive information, offering innovative solutions that meet the evolving challenges of the digital age.

But this episode is more than a deep dive into the mechanics of data security. Lizzy shares personal stories that have shaped her journey, from her initial forays into the tech world to the founding of Teleskope. Her reflections offer invaluable insights for entrepreneurs and security professionals alike, highlighting how personal experiences and professional challenges can forge a path to innovation and success.

Listeners will be inspired by Lizzy's perspective on the intersection of technology, security, and entrepreneurship. Her stories illuminate the challenges and triumphs of building a startup focused on one of the most critical issues facing businesses today: data security.

Tune in to this YSecurity.io production for an engaging and enlightening conversation with Elizabeth Nammour. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a security enthusiast, or someone passionate about leveraging technology for a safer digital world, this episode promises a wealth of knowledge and inspiration, showcasing the power of AI in transforming data security and the journey of a visionary leader shaping the future of the industry.

Hosted by Jon McLachlan — co-founder of YSecurity.

The deep dive

Where the sensitive data lives

Lizzy Nammour, co-founder and CEO of Teleskope, with Jon on labeling every column in a data warehouse by hand, landing in security by chance, a product built by people who felt the pain, learning to sell, first customers and first no's, interview questions with no trick, trust, investors and hype, hope, findings you reach through an API, one tenant per customer, mystery databases, an install script that failed, and documentation nobody updates.

Episode 33 of The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley aired on November 1, 2023, with Jon McLachlan hosting. The guest was Elizabeth Nammour, who goes by Lizzy, co-founder and CEO of Teleskope (Podbean, Apple Podcasts, Spotify). The episode is called “Elizabeth Nammour, Co-Founder and CEO of Teleskope, Navigating Data Security Frontiers.” Before Teleskope, she worked on data security at Airbnb.

Jon saw the idea for Teleskope in her first task there:

“my first task was they gave me a dump of like all the columns in the data warehouse.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 0:53

This page follows the conversation in order: a section for each part of it, fourteen figures, twenty clips from the tape, two posts from Lizzy on LinkedIn, the full transcript, and five tools: a quiz, a scorecard for where your sensitive data lives, a calculator for a manual PII review, a timeline, and a to-do list. Where the decodes of the tape disagree on a word, the transcript puts its best guess in brackets, and the page doesn’t quote or retell those words.

Every column, by hand

Jon opened with Airbnb, where Lizzy was a senior software engineer on the data security team. She joined in 2017, and the timing was good. Airbnb was starting to tackle the GDPR and the CCPA, she said:

“and we had nothing built out at that time.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 0:35

That let her build something from scratch. Jon guessed she made friends with the lawyers along the way, and she said they became good friends. The hard part came in her first three weeks. She got a dump of every column in the data warehouse, with one request:

“And they’re like, oh, please identify PII in all of those columns.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 0:59

She went through them one by one, by hand.

“And that was like the biggest pain.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 1:06

Jon could see where some of the idea for Teleskope came from, and she agreed. Personal data, also called personally identifiable information or PII, is any information related to an identifiable person (Wikipedia). The General Data Protection Regulation was adopted on April 14, 2016 and took effect on May 25, 2018 (Wikipedia). California’s Consumer Privacy Act was signed into law on June 28, 2018 and took effect on January 1, 2020 (Wikipedia). Both ask a company to know what personal data it holds.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 0:50
About 20 seconds: Lizzy on her first task at Airbnb. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A row of five boxes standing for the columns of a data warehouse: column 1, column 2, column 3 filled and marked yes, a box with an ellipsis, and column N. Each of the others asks whether it holds PII. Below, a list. The task: a dump of every column in the data warehouse, checked by hand for personal data. The timing: the GDPR took effect in May 2018, and the CCPA in January 2020. Filled: the question both laws raise, where does personal data live?
One question, asked of every column. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Into security by chance

Before Airbnb, Lizzy interned at Amazon, on a Kindle analytics team. The work was about data, she said, and not about security at all. She studied computer science at the University of Pennsylvania and called it a great college. Her LinkedIn adds the dates: a strategic innovation internship at Booz Allen Hamilton from June to August 2015, the software developer internship at Amazon from June to August 2016, and Airbnb from August 2017 to February 2022 (LinkedIn).

Jon asked if a childhood story had pulled her toward security.

“To be honest, I got into it by chance at Airbnb.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 2:30

She could probably find a story, she said, because she loves problem solving:

“I love like breaking things in order to fix it.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 2:39

At the time, Airbnb hired new graduates as generic software engineers. Teams with openings pitched the problems they were working on, and each new engineer picked one. That’s how she got into security. Jon liked the honesty. People often land in a field by chance, he said, and before long they’re experts. A few years is enough, she said:

“It’s like you just need to sometimes be put in that situation”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 3:31

Then you realize it’s what you’ve wanted to do.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 2:30
About 35 seconds: Lizzy on picking a team at Airbnb. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A timeline. June 2015: Booz Allen Hamilton, strategic innovation intern, for the summer. June 2016: Amazon, software developer intern, on a Kindle analytics team. August 2017: Airbnb, senior software engineer on data security, as the GDPR and CCPA work began. March 2022, filled: Teleskope, co-founder and CEO. November 2023: this show, episode 33, with Jon. November 2025: Series A, $25 million, led by M13. Below: she studied computer science at the University of Pennsylvania.
From internships to a data security company. Sources: the episode and Lizzy's LinkedIn.

What Teleskope does

Jon asked what Teleskope does. It grew out of her work at Airbnb and the problems her team faced there:

“So we’re basically building a modern and AI-driven data protection platform to help companies automate security, privacy, and compliance at scale and in a developer-friendly way.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 3:47

Her LinkedIn dates the company to March 2022. Teleskope’s site describes the product today in three steps: understand the data through discovery and classification, decide what to do with policies, and enforce them with remediation (Teleskope).

Built by people who felt the pain

Jon asked for the one thing Teleskope does better than anyone else in the world. Her answer was the team’s own experience:

“because we’ve actually been there and we’ve actually solved this problem like at a larger tech company.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 4:18

She doesn’t think most competitors have been in that seat:

“Whereas I think a lot of our competitors have never truly felt the pain”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 4:22

That perspective, she said, lets them build a product that works in complex environments and doesn’t add headaches for the engineers who run it. Jon said it sounded like she fell in love with the problem. People who fall in love with a solution cling to it, he said, even after something better comes along. People who fall in love with the problem keep looking for the best way to solve it.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 4:07
About 35 seconds: Lizzy on what Teleskope does better than anyone else. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Selling for the first time

Teleskope was a year and three months old. Jon guessed that equals three or four years at a large company, because things move so fast at a startup. She has learned a lot of new things, starting with sales:

“Like, I’ve never sold before this. I’ve never had to sell anything. I’ve never had to market anything.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 5:23

That world has been interesting and fun, she said, and not fun in some ways. Jon called it nerve-wracking and exciting at the same time. She has help. One of Teleskope’s advisors is the chief operating officer of another security company. Selling is his main job, and she called him the best salesperson ever. The rest comes from practice:

“But sometimes you have to try and fail and see why you failed”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 6:07

Then you fix the strategy and try again, and again, until something works. The wording has to be right, and you have to reach the right people, which means working out your target persona. She called that hard to do. Jon asked for a favorite book on marketing or sales. She doesn’t have one yet:

“I’m more the type to try and like do things and then learn from that versus like reading books that teach me how to do something.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 6:34

Jon called that an entrepreneurial spirit, with good things coming out of failures in small feedback loops. A book can list the best tactics, she said, but it can’t show you why one beats another until you’ve tried both. Tactics change from company to company:

“Even different types of people have to use different sales tactics.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 7:09

Jon agreed. A tactic has to fit your personality, and you have to wear it.

“If you’re not convinced, no one else is going to be convinced.”

Jon McLachlan, at 7:17

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 5:53
About 20 seconds: Lizzy on learning to sell by trying. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Four boxes joined by arrows. Try: a pitch or a message. Fail: and find out why. Fix: the strategy. Again, filled: until it works. Below, a list. Get the wording right. Reach the right people, which means working out your target persona. Filled: learn by doing it. A book can list tactics, and only trying them shows why one beats another.
Try, find out why it failed, fix the strategy, and try again. Source: the episode.

Mornings for email, afternoons for code

Jon asked about a typical day. There isn’t one, she said, but there is a routine. The team of five works in an office almost every day, and she recommends it:

“I would recommend for anyone having a startup to not do it remotely, do it in person.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 7:39

It’s more efficient and more fun, she said. She gets in around eight and handles LinkedIn and email in the morning. Meetings and questions fill the day.

“And then after that, in the afternoon, I code.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 8:11

She can’t let go, she said, and called that bad. Jon called it good and bad, and with five people maybe still good. He described a kind of coding for leaders:

“There’s a way, I think, to code where it’s more like leadership coding”

Jon McLachlan, at 8:29

That means foundations, interfaces and reviews, a level above picking a library and filling in the rest. She agreed. Her rule is to build big features and skip small extensions to existing ones.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 7:51
About 25 seconds: Lizzy on a day at Teleskope. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Four boxes side by side. Around eight: in the office. Morning: LinkedIn and email. Day: meetings and questions. Afternoon, filled: code. Below, a list. The team of five works in person almost every day. Filled: coding as a leader, in Jon's description, foundations, interfaces and reviews, a level above picking a library.
A founder's day, with code in the afternoon. Source: the episode.

A first customer and a first no

Jon asked about her best day so far. She had two candidates:

“it could be either like the day we got our first customer”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 9:05

That was exciting, she said, and signing took a while:

“And it’s so nerve-wracking because, you know, the whole legal process takes forever.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 9:16

You get into your head, she said, with scenarios that aren’t logical at all, and once it’s signed you’re so happy. The second was growing the team past its two co-founders:

“When we hired our first employee, it was also so fun”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 9:38

She had never hired anyone before.

Jon pointed out that the first hire’s livelihood now depends on the company doing well, a stress that is also exhilarating. Then he asked about the worst day. It came early, when an investor first said no. The first no hits the hardest, she said. She wasn’t used to hearing it. That changed:

“Now I hear no all the time and it barely affects me.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 10:27

After a no you keep asking what you could have done better. Sometimes there was something, she said, and sometimes it wasn’t the right fit, and that perspective comes with time. Teleskope had no board yet, and she said its advisors and investors had been great. Fit matters with advisors too, and looking great on paper isn’t enough:

“you have to click with the person”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 11:16

Jon agreed. Something good has to come out of those relationships, and when two people don’t click, it’s important to see that.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 10:15
About 30 seconds: Lizzy on the first no from an investor. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

From a hundred tools to one

Jon asked her to look ahead to a smashing success, as far out as she liked. She started with how security teams buy today:

“because everyone knows you have to buy 20 to 100 different tools on a security team”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 12:15

Twenty years out, she said, Teleskope would be a one-stop shop for anything security related, past data security. Five years out:

“I think five years from now, we do want to be the leading data security and privacy platform out there.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 12:26

Jon called it ambitious and said he loved it. With his chief security officer hat on, one platform for everything sounds good. It simplifies a lot, and there are so many vendors. She added the cost:

“And you’re not paying like 10 million for each vendor.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 13:08

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 12:15
About 20 seconds: Lizzy on where Teleskope goes in five and twenty years. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A grid of forty small empty boxes, labeled 20 to 100 tools on a security team today, with an arrow to one filled box: one platform, for anything security related. Below, a list. In five years: the leading data security and privacy platform. Filled: in twenty years, one stop for anything security related, past data security.
Twenty to a hundred tools today, one platform in the vision. Source: the episode.

Interview questions with no trick

Lizzy has done a lot of interviewing, at Airbnb and now at Teleskope. Jon asked for her favorite question. It depends on the interview, she said: coding, architecture or the person. For coding, she avoids questions that hinge on knowing one algorithm:

“building a data structure and like them interacting with that data structure.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 13:53

Sometimes a candidate doesn’t get the algorithm in the hour they have:

“and that doesn’t mean you’re a bad software engineer.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 14:00

People are human and don’t remember everything, and dynamic programming came up as another example. So did graphs. When, she asked, have you ever had to build one from scratch? Jon pointed out that there are databases for that. For architecture, she keeps it open-ended. She asks candidates to describe their favorite project at their last company, what its purpose was, and why they took it on, so she can see whether they understand the why of things and care.

“You don’t want someone who’s just doing something to do something.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 14:57

Jon summed it up as connecting the details of a project to the bigger picture, and being passionate about it.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 14:28
About 35 seconds: Lizzy on the architecture interview. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Three cards side by side. Coding: build a data structure and work with it, no algorithm to recall inside an hour. Architecture: a favorite project at the last company, its purpose, and why the candidate took it on. The person, filled: curious, asks why after feedback, takes a hint, and turns the camera on.
Three interviews, and what each one looks for. Source: the episode.

Green flags and red flags

Jon asked about the flags that decide a hire. Curiosity is the green one:

“if I give them feedback and they ask why and they’re curious, like that’s always a great green flag.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 15:25

The red one is a candidate who pushes back on feedback. At Airbnb she would offer a hint during an interview, and some candidates ignored it completely. Jon called it a nice little hint that gets ignored.

“That’s like the biggest red flag.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 15:54

It raises the question of how you would work together. Jon put it as chemistry and communication, and whether someone listens. She put it more sharply:

“And if you’re not listening to me in an interview where I’m interviewing you, when are you going to listen to me?”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 16:05

Jon said an interview shows a person on their best behavior. Everyone has an off day, he said, and you can stumble through a question and still be a delightful person. She agreed that performance varies, and said personality red flags stay red flags. Then she told a story:

“one guy never turned on his camera, and that was also a red flag towards the end.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 16:39

With everyone remote during COVID, she said, one interview with the camera off is understandable. Every time, it feels like something is off. Jon said human connection matters, even remote.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 15:19
About 35 seconds: Lizzy on green flags and red flags. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Trust comes first

Jon told how he pitched investors during COVID. He set up the camera and a light on his face, and put the deck behind the camera:

“so it looked like I was looking directly at everybody”

Jon McLachlan, at 17:30

It worked even when he was reading notes from the deck.

Eye contact matters a lot, Jon said. Lizzy said she could get better at it on Zoom, where you look at your slides. Jon tied it to trust. In security, he said, trust is all we have. Once there’s trust between two people, in an interview or a sale, you can have a real conversation. An early-stage startup has to build that trust from nothing, she said. People ask who you are:

“Like, why should I trust you?”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 18:18

The person in front of them fills the gap:

“that human connection helps them build trust, because they trust you, and so they end up trusting the company.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 18:24

Jon asked about hard questions from customers, and answers that built trust. Her answer was honesty about the features you support and the ones you don’t:

“I think when you’re very honest”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 18:46

In security, she said, people claim to do a lot of things, and then it turns out they don’t. So she tells a buyer when a feature isn’t supported yet, and offers to work with them on it. Buyers like that answer, because it shows she isn’t overcommitting. With other vendors, you can’t tell whether a feature is there:

“You just don’t know until you deploy. And sometimes they don’t even run pilots.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 19:21

Then you buy the tool and find out it doesn’t do what the vendor said.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 18:45
About 25 seconds: Lizzy on telling buyers what the product doesn't do yet. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two rows of boxes joined by arrows. Claim the feature: yes, we do that, said in the sales call. Bought, often with no pilot. Found out, dashed, only after deploying. Say what isn't supported yet: not supported yet, said plainly. Offer to build it, together with the buyer. Trust, filled, in the company.
Two ways to answer a feature question. Source: the episode.

Investors, hype and honesty

Jon asked what it’s like to be a female founder in a field with so many men, and in security in particular. Her team at the time was four women and one man, she said, which happened by chance. Customers weren’t the hard part. Investors were, she said, because they tend to click with certain personality types, people who flaunt every aspect of themselves. In her view, women are often harder on themselves and won’t say they know something unless they know it 100%. Investor conversations reward the opposite.

Jon called the flaunting peacocking: the feathers go up, the colors spread, and it’s still a little bird. He said he values honesty, and he isn’t an investor. He had noticed what she described: a small club where everyone talks to each other, and once you talk to one, the rest know about you. He called it hype.

She took the hype to Gen AI. If you’re a Gen AI startup, she said, raising money is easy, and Teleskope was in that group:

“we use large language models, so we’re definitely playing that card.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 22:00

Jon said the technology fits the problem, since you have to identify what type of data is flying around a system. She agreed, and made a distinction:

“I don’t think Gen AI is a hype in a bad way.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 22:12

The technology is cool, she said. The hype comes from how people talk about it, and the technology has been around a long time. Jon compared it to the housing bubble, where the houses had nothing to do with it and the people did. Would it happen again? Jon answered:

“I mean, a history unlearned is a history repeated.”

Jon McLachlan, at 22:50

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 22:10
About 20 seconds: Lizzy on Gen AI and hype. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Hope, and anger as a signal

Jon asked for a book or movie that changed how she sees the world.

“my favorite movie ever would be Shawshank Redemption, even though I know that’s like a cliche answer.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 24:03

Jon said everyone loves a cliche answer. She doesn’t think it’s a controversial pick. She likes it because it shows how important optimism and hope are. Even in the most dire situation, the characters stay hopeful, and in the end it works out. Jon said the two of them share the habit of finding the silver lining. If you always think about the bad, she said, you’ll never be happy. She asked whether that’s what meditation teaches, changing your perspective on what happens to you. Jon described one kind, where you become an observer. You feel an emotion like anger all the way through, he said, and ask yourself why you feel it. It stops being overpowering:

“It just becomes like data.”

Jon McLachlan, at 26:03

It’s a signal about what’s happening around you, he said, and whether it lines up with your values. She finished the thought:

“You take action, but you’re not, like, drowning in that feeling for days and days and days.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 26:19

Advice to a younger self

Jon asked what advice she’d give her younger self.

“I think it’s to not be overly stressed about like the next goal.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 29:11

Getting into the best college was the biggest stress of her life, she said, with all those A’s, and now she wonders whether it mattered. Studying matters, she said, and so does doing well. Being that focused on the next goal is what she’d change:

“You’re going to achieve that goal one way or another.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 29:34

She also stressed about worst cases, like not getting into college, and doesn’t know why she kept thinking about them. Jon said it’s good to look back and see how much we’ve grown. He asked whether Teleskope helped her grow. Definitely, she said. You get used to hearing no. She could never have imagined messaging a stranger on LinkedIn:

“But now I do this all the time. I don’t have a barrier.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 30:52

She used to worry she was bothering people. She likes messaging people now.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 29:11
About 30 seconds: Lizzy's advice to her younger self. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Top down first, freemium later

Jon asked about Teleskope’s go-to-market strategy. At such an early stage, she said:

“So right now it has to be like top-down”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 31:15

Then she described a bottom-up motion. Developers and security engineers try the tool on a freemium plan, and Teleskope sells the bigger platform from there.

For anyone who wants to try it, the first step was a demo. Teleskope shows the whole tool, and then sets things up with you.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 31:15
About 20 seconds: Lizzy on Teleskope's go-to-market. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

Find it, fix it, and reach it through an API

Jon summed up the product: know what types of data you have and in which systems, and how to comply with GDPR, CCPA or HIPAA. She added that Teleskope also helps fix the issues it finds. HIPAA, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, was signed on August 21, 1996, and sets guidelines for protecting personally identifiable information held by healthcare and health insurance companies (Wikipedia). Then she named what she sees as the product’s strength:

“Our true power is that we’re really developer friendly.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 32:10

“So all of our insights, you access them via APIs.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 32:13

“So you can build your own security and privacy controls.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 32:17

Every company runs its own internal systems and services, she said, so she can’t build everything out of the box for them. Jon said that sounds like bigger customers, with internal tools they want to feed the data into. That way, she said, Teleskope isn’t another tool that doesn’t talk to the others. Customers can plug it in.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 32:10
About 25 seconds: Lizzy on reaching the findings through APIs. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Four boxes joined by arrows. Discover: the data stores. Classify: find the PII. Remediate: fix the issues. APIs, filled: to your controls. Below, a list. Built for laws like the GDPR, the CCPA and HIPAA. Every company runs its own internal systems, so the findings go out through APIs. Filled: customers build their own security and privacy controls on top.
Find the data, classify it, and hand the findings to your own controls. Source: the episode.

One tenant per customer

Jon asked whether Teleskope runs as SaaS or only on-prem. It can be either:

“single-tenant SaaS or on-prem, whichever you prefer.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 33:02

Jon said single tenancy makes him feel secure, kept apart from everything else in the cloud. She called it network segregation:

“Like, you only allow access for one customer.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 33:18

That makes the system more secure and easier to manage, she said. It also helps at the end. If a company wants its data destroyed, single tenancy makes it much easier for Teleskope to confirm it deleted all the metadata it stores for them. In a multitenant design, one instance of the software serves many tenants (Wikipedia).

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 32:56
About 25 seconds: Lizzy on single tenancy. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Three boxes side by side. Multitenant: one instance, many tenants. Single-tenant SaaS, filled: one customer per network. On-prem: inside your own network. Below, a list. Network segregation: access for one customer only. Filled: deletion, easier to confirm that all the stored metadata is gone. The on-prem tradeoff: the vendor can't see its own bugs, so fixing them takes hand-holding.
One network per customer, and deletion you can confirm. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Policies on one side, engineering on the other

Jon asked, with no obligation to answer, whether Teleskope competes with Drata and Vanta.

“No, not at all.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 33:33

The companies have synergies, she said. Drata and Vanta help with policies:

“they tell you what you need to do, but they don’t tell you whether you’re actually doing them or not, or how to fix them”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 33:41

Teleskope works from the engineering side:

“So we can tell you, these are all your databases that have PII.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 33:52

You can upload that list to Drata, she said, because GDPR and even SOC 2 ask where you store sensitive data. Often, nobody knows the answer.

SOC 2 is one of the System and Organization Controls reports defined by the AICPA, which service organizations use to report on the internal controls over their information systems (Wikipedia). On episode 64, Daniel Marashlian, Drata’s co-founder and CTO, told how a SOC 2 request at his previous company pulled three of six engineers off the roadmap.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 33:33
About 35 seconds: Lizzy on working alongside Drata and Vanta. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Two cards side by side. Drata and Vanta: policies, what you need to do. Teleskope, filled: engineering, whether you're doing it, and how to fix it. Below, a list. The question the GDPR and SOC 2 raise: where is the sensitive data stored? Filled: the evidence, a list of every database that holds PII, ready to upload.
What to do, and whether you're doing it. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Mystery databases

Jon had been in large companies where nobody knew the answer.

“And then you get databases, mystery databases that show up.”

Jon McLachlan, at 34:12

Sometimes they hold prod data, he said, because a developer wanted to do the right thing and test. Then the copy gets left behind by accident. It’s so easy to forget, she said, and the numbers work against you:

“if you have 10,000 engineers, how are you going to keep up?”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 34:33

Everything has backups, Jon said, and backups of backups, and the data flies all over the place. She added more places for it to go, with thousands of SaaS vendors on top:

“you have three different clouds”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 34:43

Jon asked how Teleskope sees into all of that. The bigger vision, she said, is to discover a company’s AWS accounts on its own, by plugging into email or billing software, and to work out which vendors it uses. At the time of the show:

“But now all you need to do is just give us like an IAM role, and we’re able to discover everything within that account.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 35:15

That covers everything within the AWS organization. Jon said the crawl and its results stay the customer’s own in a single-tenant instance. He had never been in a large company without this problem. She said it starts early, at around 150 to 200 employees. At that size, companies start working out what they need for compliance, and Teleskope can help put the controls in place from the engineering side.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 35:00
About 25 seconds: Lizzy on finding data across an AWS organization. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A list of how sensitive data spreads. A copy of production data, made for one test and left behind. Backups, and backups of backups. Several clouds, and thousands of SaaS vendors. Thousands of engineers, too many to track by hand. An arrow down to three boxes joined by arrows. An IAM role, granted to the tool. The organization, every AWS account in it. Every data store, filled, found and classified.
How sensitive data spreads, and how discovery starts. Source: the episode.

The install script that failed

Jon raised the barrier to entry with any vendor: the sludge you run through to set one up. Even a small proof of concept takes a ton of work. Sometimes a month, she said, and that’s optimistic. Jon set a lower bar:

“but I’m counting even like 30 minutes as like a sludge.”

Jon McLachlan, at 36:46

She agreed, and asked about his worst onboarding experience. He wouldn’t name the company, which he said has a popular name. It went on and on:

“and then I ended up being their QA.”

Jon McLachlan, at 37:06

He had agreement from the C-level executives, and he told the vendor to take his money and send the install script. It didn’t work. Nothing worked. His team had to move fast, so they didn’t do the deal. Open source alternatives that they deployed themselves worked, with a strong community behind them. The vendor was huge, Jon said, and the story was recent. The larger the company, the harder it is to fix its own bugs. Lizzy had expected more from the vendor:

“I get everything else, but like the install, like, that should be the only thing that works.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 38:20

When Jon said no, the vendor asked for logs from a giant system:

“And I looked at the logs, and it had like all of this other data in it”

Jon McLachlan, at 38:48

He couldn’t share them, he said, so he told the vendor how to reproduce the bug. They kept asking for the logs. She named the tradeoff with on-prem:

“you’re going to have to do a lot of like hand-holding to help them fix it.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 39:17

With SaaS, a vendor can see the bugs itself.

Listen · Jon McLachlan on episode 33, from 37:22
About 25 seconds: Jon on his worst onboarding. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
A large figure: 30 minutes, Jon's limit for setting up a vendor's proof of concept. Some take a month. Below, five numbered steps. One: agreement from the C-level executives, and money ready to spend. Two: the install script fails, and nothing works. Three: the vendor asks for logs from a giant system, and the logs hold other data. Four: Jon says no, and explains how to reproduce the bug. Five: no deal. An open source alternative works, with a strong community behind it.
Thirty minutes is the bar, and the logs stay inside. Source: the episode.

Documentation that writes itself

Jon asks guests for a pain point someone should build a company around. She had one ready:

“I think documentation needs to be fixed”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 39:46

Engineers won’t write it or update it, she said. Her fix:

“So if there could be something that like basically crawled the code and then wrote the documentation for it automatically.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 39:57

With the new kinds of AI, she thinks that’s possible now. Jon loved the idea. Maybe people write documentation once, she said, but when they change something, they don’t go back to it:

“No one’s going to update their documentation.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 40:19

Jon remembered an engineer he worked with at Symphony Communications. Someone asked about the documentation for his code, and the engineer answered:

“the code is the documentation.”

Jon McLachlan, at 40:50

The code was pretty good, Jon said, and he still sympathized with the person asking. He didn’t want to reverse engineer how a server was stood up just to find an endpoint. He wanted to know what goes in and what comes out, the contract a service has with the rest of the world. An AI that scans code for contracts and publishes them would be great, Jon said. Today’s tools generate documentation from the comments you write, she said, and Jon named Swagger and OpenAPI. Someone still has to write the comments:

“people don’t even want to write that in the first place.”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 42:17

The OpenAPI Specification, called the Swagger Specification before, is a machine-readable language for describing web services. Tony Tam began Swagger at Wordnik in early 2010, and OpenAPI became its own project in 2015 under the OpenAPI Initiative (Wikipedia).

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 39:45
About 25 seconds: Lizzy on the company she wants someone to build. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.
Three boxes joined by arrows. Code: the behavior itself. Crawl: every endpoint. Contract, filled: what goes in and out. Below, a list. Today: tools like Swagger and OpenAPI generate documentation from the comments engineers write. The gap: people don't write those comments, or update them. Filled: the wish, a tool that reads the code itself and writes the documentation.
From code to a contract people can read. Sources: the episode and Wikipedia.

Keep pushing

Jon asked for words of wisdom to close the show. She said she was on the spot, and they knocked on wood for the day she runs a large unicorn. She said to keep the optimism:

“just keep pushing through”

Elizabeth Nammour, at 43:02

Startups fail when founders give up, she said. Jon called it the only reason they fail, and shared the serious one of a couple of sayings he’d heard:

“a founder is the first to know that something is going to fail and the last to believe it.”

Jon McLachlan, at 43:21

You can always find the solution, she said, and Jon said there’s always a way forward.

Listen · Elizabeth Nammour on episode 33, from 43:01
About 25 seconds: Lizzy's parting words, and a saying from Jon. The clip stops on its own. Read the full transcript.

What happened after the tape

Out of stealth, then generally available. Teleskope’s About page puts the start of development in 2022. The company came out of stealth in 2024 with its contextual classification engine, and reached general availability with native remediation in January 2025 (Teleskope).

A $25 million Series A. On November 3, 2025, Teleskope announced $25 million in Series A funding led by M13, with repeat participation from Primary Venture Partners and Lerer Hippeau. The round brought its total funding to $32.2 million (Business Wire). In the release, Lizzy said that at Airbnb she had to catalog and classify hundreds of petabytes of data across dozens of platforms, and “the tools we used simply couldn’t keep up.” It’s the same problem as her first task on the tape. Fortune ran the news as “Former Airbnb engineer raises $25 million for AI security platform Teleskope” (Fortune).

Lizzy Nammour on LinkedIn, November 10, 2025: Teleskope's Series A, led by M13, with Primary Venture Partners and Lerer Hippeau, and an invitation to join the team.

Elizabeth Nammour · November 10, 2025
Lizzy's post on the Series A. View on LinkedIn.

New products, and a channel. Teleskope launched its Data Reasoning Layer on June 11, 2026, and Kosmo, which it calls an AI co-pilot for data security teams, on October 8, 2026. On October 29, 2026, it announced that GuidePoint Security now offers Teleskope to its customers (Teleskope).

What security leaders said. On August 27, 2026, Lizzy shared a survey of security leaders. Seventy percent named AI data exposure or sensitive data sprawl as their top risk for the next year, ahead of identity, cloud, compliance and third-party risk. Half said remediation is mostly or fully manual. A team sees 195 alerts a day, and a high-priority one takes one to four hours to triage and resolve (LinkedIn). The calculator below runs the same kind of math on a review done by hand.

Lizzy Nammour on LinkedIn, August 27, 2026: what security leaders named as their top data risk, and how much of the fix is still manual.

Elizabeth Nammour · August 27, 2026
Lizzy's post on the survey. View on LinkedIn.

More on this site. On episode 24, Aman LaChapelle of Modular made the case for holding as little personal data as you can, since data you don’t have can’t leak. On episode 47, Clea Ostendorf, then a field CISO at Code42, talked about insider risk and data loss prevention. And on episode 41, Michael Moore, then chief privacy officer at Lacework, described how stolen personal data can destroy credit and wreck finances.

A timeline. 2024: out of stealth, with a contextual classification engine. January 2025: generally available, with native remediation. November 2025, filled: Series A, $25 million led by M13, for $32.2 million in total. June 2026: Data Reasoning Layer, a new product. August 2026: a survey, 70% of security leaders named AI data exposure or sensitive data sprawl as their top risk. October 2026: Kosmo and GuidePoint, a co-pilot for data security teams, and a new channel.
After the tape, from stealth to a Series A and new products. Sources: Teleskope, Business Wire and Lizzy's LinkedIn.

Did you catch it? A seven-question quiz

Seven questions from the episode. Each answer links the moment in the transcript.

Quiz · seven questions

Did you catch it?

Pick an answer to see whether you caught it.

  1. What was Lizzy's first task at Airbnb?

    b. "And they're like, oh, please identify PII in all of those columns." Transcript, 0:59.

  2. How did she end up working in security?

    a. "To be honest, I got into it by chance at Airbnb." Transcript, 2:30.

  3. What does she still do in the afternoons?

    c. "And then after that, in the afternoon, I code." Transcript, 8:11.

  4. What was her worst day at Teleskope so far?

    a. The first no came early, and it hit the hardest. See A first customer and a first no.

  5. What's a great green flag in one of her interviews?

    b. "if I give them feedback and they ask why and they're curious, like that's always a great green flag." Transcript, 15:25.

  6. What does Teleskope need to discover the data in an AWS account?

    c. "But now all you need to do is just give us like an IAM role, and we're able to discover everything within that account." Transcript, 35:15.

  7. What company does she wish someone would build?

    b. "So if there could be something that like basically crawled the code and then wrote the documentation for it automatically." Transcript, 39:57.

Do you know where your sensitive data lives?

Eight questions on finding, labeling and deleting sensitive data, built from the episode. Each tip links the section behind it.

Scorecard · eight questions

Do you know where your sensitive data lives?

Answer for your company as it runs today. If two answers fit, pick the lower one.

  1. Do you keep a current list of every place personal data lives?

    • No list
    • Some systems, kept by hand
    • Every database, warehouse, bucket and SaaS tool, kept current

    Lizzy's first task at Airbnb was finding it by hand. See Every column, by hand.

  2. Is every column or field that holds personal data labeled?

    • No labels
    • Some, labeled once
    • All of them, and new columns get checked as they appear

    A one-time review goes stale as columns change. See Every column, by hand.

  3. Do test environments use copies of production data?

    • Yes, and the copies stay around
    • Yes, and we delete them after the test
    • No, only masked or synthetic data

    A copy made for one test gets forgotten. See Mystery databases.

  4. Do you know every cloud account your company runs?

    • No
    • Most of them
    • All of them, found automatically

    Discovery starts with the accounts. See Mystery databases.

  5. Can you delete a customer's data on request and show that it's gone?

    • No
    • From the main database only
    • Everywhere, backups included, with a record

    Single tenancy makes deletion easier to confirm. See One tenant per customer.

  6. Do backups follow the same retention and deletion rules as the source?

    • No rules for backups
    • Some of them
    • The same rules, enforced

    Backups of backups spread the data. See Mystery databases.

  7. Does someone check data before it leaves for a vendor, such as logs for a support ticket?

    • Never
    • Sometimes
    • Every time, with a named owner

    Jon found other data in the logs a vendor asked for. See The install script that failed.

  8. Do findings about sensitive data reach engineers in a tool they already use?

    • A report nobody reads
    • A ticket now and then
    • Through an API or a ticket queue, each with an owner

    Findings help when they reach your own controls. See Find it, fix it, and reach it through an API.

Scattered

You can't yet say where all your sensitive data lives. Start a list this week, beginning with your data warehouse and your cloud accounts.

Partly mapped

You know the main stores. Next, check new columns as they appear, and stop copying production data into tests.

Mapped and enforced

You know where the data lives and act on what you find. Hold backups and vendor shares to the same rules.

How long would a manual PII review take?

Lizzy’s first task was a column-by-column review. This calculator prices one for your warehouse.

Calculator

How long would a manual PII review take?

Four numbers: the columns in your warehouse, the minutes it takes to check one, the new columns you add each month, and what an engineering hour costs you.

333 hfor a first pass
8.3weeks for one engineer
$33,333in engineering time
8 hof review each month after that

A first pass takes 333 h, about 8.3 weeks for one engineer, at a cost of $33,333. New columns add 8 h of review every month.

The calculator counts one look at each column, and leaves out the tables outside the warehouse, backups, and the copies made for tests. The defaults are placeholders: count the columns in your warehouse's information schema, time yourself on twenty of them, and put in your own numbers.

From HIPAA to a data security Series A

The privacy laws and standards from the episode, Lizzy’s roles, Teleskope, and this show. Filter by topic.

Timeline

From HIPAA to a data security Series A

  1. HIPAA

    Signed into law, with guidelines for protecting personal information in healthcare (Wikipedia, on this page).

  2. Airbnb

    Founded by Brian Chesky, Nathan Blecharczyk and Joe Gebbia (Wikipedia).

  3. Swagger

    Tony Tam begins the project at Wordnik (Wikipedia).

  4. The OpenAPI Initiative

    The specification becomes its own project (Wikipedia, on this page).

  5. Booz Allen Hamilton

    Strategic innovation intern, to August 2015 (LinkedIn).

  6. The GDPR

    Adopted by the European Parliament and Council (Wikipedia).

  7. Amazon

    Software developer intern, on a Kindle analytics team, to August 2016 (LinkedIn, on this page).

  8. Trust Services Criteria

    The AICPA sets the five categories behind SOC 2 controls (Wikipedia).

  9. Airbnb data security

    Senior software engineer on data security, to February 2022 (LinkedIn, on this page).

  10. The GDPR takes effect

    Across the European Union (Wikipedia).

  11. The CCPA

    Signed into law in California (Wikipedia).

  12. The CCPA takes effect

    California residents get new privacy rights (Wikipedia).

  13. Proposition 24

    Voters pass the California Privacy Rights Act, which amends and expands the CCPA (Wikipedia).

  14. Teleskope

    Lizzy starts the company as founder and CEO (LinkedIn, Teleskope).

  15. Episode 24

    Aman LaChapelle of Modular on holding less data (episode page).

  16. Episode 33

    Lizzy on the show (Podbean, transcript).

  17. Out of stealth

    With a contextual classification engine (Teleskope).

  18. Episode 41

    Michael Moore of Lacework on privacy (episode page).

  19. Episode 47

    Clea Ostendorf of Code42 on insider risk (episode page).

  20. General availability

    With native remediation (Teleskope).

  21. Episode 64

    Daniel Marashlian of Drata on compliance (episode page).

  22. A $25 million Series A

    Led by M13, for $32.2 million in total funding (Business Wire, on this page).

  23. The Data Reasoning Layer

    A new product launch (Teleskope).

  24. A survey of security leaders

    Seventy percent named AI data exposure or sensitive data sprawl as their top risk (LinkedIn).

  25. Kosmo

    An AI co-pilot for data security teams (Teleskope).

  26. GuidePoint Security

    Teleskope is now offered through GuidePoint (Teleskope).

What to do this week

Five things, in the order of the episode.

  1. List where personal data lives. Start with your data warehouse and your cloud accounts, and label the columns that hold it, as in Every column, by hand.
  2. Stop copying production data into tests. Use masked or synthetic data, and delete the copies that exist, as in Mystery databases.
  3. Keep sensitive logs inside. Give vendors a way to reproduce a bug, and check anything you send them, as in The install script that failed.
  4. Send findings where engineers work. Route them through an API or a ticket queue with an owner, as in Find it, fix it, and reach it through an API.
  5. Get help with it. Our vCISO Services team builds the data inventory and the program around it, our SOC 2 Type 2 team gets you ready for the auditor’s questions about where sensitive data lives, and our Product Security work designs deletion and tenancy into the product. If you want to talk it through, book 15 minutes with us.

Key takeaways

  1. Finding the data comes first

    Lizzy's first task at Airbnb was a dump of every column in the data warehouse, with a request to find the PII in each one by hand. The GDPR and the CCPA both start with knowing what personal data you hold and where.

  2. Build from the pain you felt

    Teleskope's edge, in Lizzy's words, is a team that solved this problem at a larger tech company. A product built by people who ran it doesn't add headaches for the engineers who run it.

  3. Sales is learned by trying

    Lizzy had never sold or marketed anything before Teleskope. She learns by trying, finding out why it failed, fixing the strategy and trying again, and she doesn't have a favorite sales book.

  4. Interview for how people think

    Her coding questions have no algorithm to remember. A candidate builds a data structure and works with it, and in the architecture interview explains why a project mattered.

  5. A candidate who asks why is a green flag

    Curiosity after feedback is her best signal. Ignoring a hint is the biggest red flag, because a candidate who won't listen in an interview won't listen later.

  6. Say what the product doesn't do yet

    Buyers trust a founder who tells them a feature isn't supported yet and offers to build it with them. Overclaiming leaves them finding out after they deploy.

  7. Give findings to the tools engineers use

    Teleskope's findings go out through APIs, so each company builds its own security and privacy controls on its own internal systems.

  8. Mystery databases are normal at scale

    Copies of production data made for a test, backups of backups, several clouds and thousands of vendors spread sensitive data. Lizzy said companies start needing help at about 150 to 200 employees.

Chapters

Tap a chapter to play from there.

Pull quotes

“And they're like, oh, please identify PII in all of those columns.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“To be honest, I got into it by chance at Airbnb.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“So we're basically building a modern and AI-driven data protection platform to help companies automate security, privacy, and compliance at scale and in a developer-friendly way.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“And that was like the biggest pain.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“Like, I've never sold before this. I've never had to sell anything. I've never had to market anything.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“I would recommend for anyone having a startup to not do it remotely, do it in person.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“Now I hear no all the time and it barely affects me.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“I think five years from now, we do want to be the leading data security and privacy platform out there.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“And if you're not listening to me in an interview where I'm interviewing you, when are you going to listen to me?”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“That's like the biggest red flag.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“I don't think Gen AI is a hype in a bad way.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“Our true power is that we're really developer friendly.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“But now all you need to do is just give us like an IAM role, and we're able to discover everything within that account.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

“And then you get databases, mystery databases that show up.”

Jon McLachlan ·

“No one's going to update their documentation.”

Elizabeth Nammour ·

About the guest

Elizabeth Nammour, Co-Founder and CEO, Teleskope

Elizabeth Nammour, who goes by Lizzy, is the co-founder and CEO of Teleskope, a data security company she started in March 2022. Before that she was a senior software engineer on the data security team at Airbnb from August 2017 to February 2022, where she worked on GDPR and CCPA. She interned at Booz Allen Hamilton in 2015 and at Amazon in 2016, and studied computer science at the University of Pennsylvania. In November 2025, Teleskope announced a $25 million Series A led by M13.

About the host

Jon McLachlan is co-founder of YSecurity, the on-demand cybersecurity team for startups, and of Cyberbase.ai. The Security Podcast of Silicon Valley is hosted by Jon McLachlan and Sasha Sinkevich. Jon McLachlan on LinkedIn ↗

Context and sources

  • Episode 33 on Podbean: Elizabeth Nammour, Co-Founder and CEO of Teleskope, Navigating Data Security Frontiers. Source ↗
  • Elizabeth Nammour's LinkedIn: Teleskope founder and CEO from March 2022, Airbnb senior software engineer on data security from August 2017 to February 2022, Amazon software developer intern in 2016, Booz Allen Hamilton strategic innovation intern in 2015, and a computer science degree from the University of Pennsylvania. Source ↗
  • Teleskope, About: development began in 2022, out of stealth in 2024, general availability with native remediation in January 2025, a Series A led by M13 in November 2025, and the Data Reasoning Layer in June 2026. Source ↗
  • Teleskope, press and news: the Data Reasoning Layer on June 11, 2026, Kosmo on October 8, 2026, and GuidePoint Security on October 29, 2026. Source ↗
  • Business Wire, November 3, 2025: Teleskope announces $25 million in Series A funding led by M13, with Primary Venture Partners and Lerer Hippeau, for $32.2 million in total funding. Source ↗
  • Fortune, November 3, 2025: Former Airbnb engineer raises $25 million for AI security platform Teleskope. Source ↗
  • Elizabeth Nammour on LinkedIn, November 10, 2025: Teleskope's Series A. Source ↗
  • Elizabeth Nammour on LinkedIn, August 27, 2026: a survey of security leaders on their top data risk and how much remediation is manual. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Personal data: also known as personal information or personally identifiable information (PII), any information related to an identifiable person. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, General Data Protection Regulation: adopted on April 14, 2016, effective on May 25, 2018. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, California Consumer Privacy Act: signed on June 28, 2018, effective on January 1, 2020, and amended by the California Privacy Rights Act in November 2020. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act: signed on August 21, 1996, with guidelines for protecting personally identifiable information in healthcare and health insurance. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, System and Organization Controls: reports defined by the AICPA for service organizations to report on internal controls, with Trust Services Criteria set in 2017. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Multitenancy: a single instance of software runs on a server and serves multiple tenants. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, OpenAPI Specification: previously the Swagger Specification, begun by Tony Tam at Wordnik in early 2010, a separate project under the OpenAPI Initiative since 2015. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Airbnb: founded in 2008 by Brian Chesky, Nathan Blecharczyk and Joe Gebbia. Source ↗
  • Wikipedia, Data loss prevention software: strategies and technologies that prevent the unauthorized transmission or disclosure of sensitive data. Source ↗

Transcript

Automatic transcription. Jon McLachlan hosts this episode with Elizabeth Nammour, known as Lizzy, co-founder and CEO of Teleskope. There is no diarization on the tape, so speaker labels were assigned from the content and checked against reference recordings of each voice from this episode and against voice pitch, and a few short lines may sit with the wrong speaker. Names and terms were normalized where the recognizer misheard them (Jon McLachlan, Lizzy Nammour, Teleskope, Airbnb, Drata, Dijkstra, CCPA, SOC 2, IAM, OpenAPI). Words in [brackets] are best guesses where the audio is unclear. Answers are transcribed as spoken, with most repeated words and false starts kept. Short backchannels such as "yeah" and "right" are left out where they overlap the other speaker.

Read the full transcript 8,460 words

Jon McLachlan

Hello and welcome, everyone, to another episode of the Security Podcast in Silicon Valley. I'm here today with a very special guest, Lizzy Nammour. Lizzy is the co-founder and CEO of Teleskope, cutting-edge data security startup, and I'm super interested to hear all about it. Before then, you were with Airbnb, you were a senior security engineer on the data security team.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I was. I joined in 2017, and I think it was such great timing just because we were starting to tackle like GDPR and CCPA, and we had nothing built out at that time. So I was able to like create something from scratch there.

Jon McLachlan

So you felt a lot of pain as you were [slogging] through some of those requirements and making friends with the lawyers.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I'm very good friends. And like, the worst thing was, like, my first three weeks, like, my first task was they gave me a dump of like all the columns in the data warehouse. And they're like, oh, please identify PII in all of those columns. So, [wow], one by one, like, manually. And that was like the biggest pain.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. I could see where maybe some of the inspiration came from for Teleskope.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Definitely.

Jon McLachlan

Even before your time at Airbnb, you had spent some time at Amazon. You're an intern there. Not a lot of people can [say] that.

Elizabeth Nammour

It was a much more different, very different space. It was like on the Kindle reading analytics team. So it was still related to data, but just not security at all.

Jon McLachlan

Very nice. And you studied computer science at the University of Pennsylvania.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. So great college, so much fun and really good learnings. Honestly, like my, one of my favorite professors, he actually owned like crypto.com. I don't know if you knew that.

Jon McLachlan

No, I didn't know that. Like, [Chris], we just integrated something with crypto.com at [quite a bit].

Elizabeth Nammour

He just sold it two years ago, but at first he never wanted to sell it because he thought crypto is like for cryptography and not for cryptocurrency.

Jon McLachlan

But oh, he owned the domain, and then

Elizabeth Nammour

Owned the domain.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, I gotcha. Okay. I bet he, he made out, he made a killing.

Elizabeth Nammour

Sure. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

So, hey, it takes a little bit of crazy to get into the security space. It sounds like you jumped right in right at the beginning of your career. I'm curious, though, if you go back in time maybe to like childhood, is there, are there any like fun stories about what teased you into the space of security?

Elizabeth Nammour

To be honest, I got into it by chance at Airbnb. I'm sure I could find like stories from childhood where, like, I'm, I love problem solving. I love like breaking things in order to fix it. And so obviously, like, that [makes] sense for security. But at Airbnb, the way it worked at the time is you would join as a generic software engineer after college. And the teams at Airbnb that had openings would come and they would pitch to you, like, these are the problems we're trying to solve. And you got to pick like which team you wanted to work on. And so that's how I truly got into it.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. No, that's awesome. I love the honesty too.

Elizabeth Nammour

'Cause, yeah, I mean, I wish there was something where, like, I was born, like

Jon McLachlan

No, no, it's perfect. I think it's important for folks to know that sometimes we just end up in these really awesome spaces. It's serendipitous sometimes. And before you know it, you're an expert in security.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. It only takes like a few years, I think.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't take long at all. And as soon as you get a glimpse of it, sometimes, you know, that's it. You're hooked.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. It's like you just need to sometimes be put in that situation to realize that, okay, like, this is what I've been wanting to do.

Jon McLachlan

So what do you, what do you do at Teleskope?

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, so it definitely stems from the work I did at Airbnb and the problems we faced. So we're basically building a modern and AI-driven data protection platform to help companies automate security, privacy, and compliance at scale and in a developer-friendly way.

Jon McLachlan

Awesome. And you probably do that better than anyone else in the world.

Elizabeth Nammour

I would think so.

Jon McLachlan

The one, that one thing. It's very specific.

Elizabeth Nammour

So the one thing at Teleskope that we do better than anyone else, I think we truly understand the pain points of being a security or data security engineer better than anyone else, because we've actually been there and we've actually solved this problem like at a larger tech company. Whereas I think a lot of our competitors have never truly felt the pain or know like what exactly they're trying to solve for their customers. And so I think that's like, that perspective gives us an edge to build a product that truly works in complex environments and doesn't cause more headaches on the actual engineers operating them.

Jon McLachlan

It sounds like you really fell in love with the problem.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I did. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

And that's perfect because, like, sometimes people fall in love with a solution and then you cling to it, even though there might be something better that comes along. But if you fall in [love] with that problem, you try to

Elizabeth Nammour

Solve it in the best way possible.

Jon McLachlan

Exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you've been doing this for a year and a half or so now.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. Yeah. A year and like three months.

Jon McLachlan

That's at least, like, I was going to say something silly like three years or four years equivalent of being at a large company. Things go so, things go so fast in the startup.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. And you learn so much, so many different things. Like, I've never sold before this. I've never had to sell anything. I've never had to market anything. And just like diving into that world has been so interesting and like fun, but also like not fun in certain ways.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. That sounds nerve-wracking.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Nerve-wracking, but exciting, like nerve-wracking and exciting at the same time.

Elizabeth Nammour

And it is like [figuring] it out. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, you're figuring out. Do you have like an advisor that helps you navigate that space? Because it's a very complex, intricate space.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, very intricate space. We do. One of our advisors, he's the COO at Data Theorem, which is another like security company. And so all he does is like his main role is to sell. Like, and he's like the best salesperson ever. And so we learn a lot from him. But sometimes you have to try and fail and see why you failed and then like fix your strategy and then do it again and again until like something seems to work. Like, the wording has to be right. You have to like ping the right people, like figure out who is your target persona. And that's really hard to do.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Do you have a favorite book on marketing? Or in sales?

Elizabeth Nammour

No, I'm playing around with it and asking people. I'm much more, yeah, I'm more the type to try and like do things and then learn from that versus like reading books that teach me how to do something.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, that's awesome. I love the, that's an entrepreneurial spirit, 100%, where you get like good things come out of failures. You get information, improve, and it's like little feedback loops.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. [And] learn why something doesn't work. Like, I think a book could explain, okay, these are the best tactics, but you don't know why, like, this is better than another one because you haven't tried that other way. And you don't know why that other way would fail. And sometimes, like, I think it's different for different people. Like, different companies have to use different sales tactics. Even different types of people have to use different sales tactics.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, I bet, because it has to fit your personality, and you have to like embody that and you have to wear that. If you're not convinced, no one else is going to be convinced.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. Exactly.

Jon McLachlan

So what's a typical day look like for you at Teleskope?

Elizabeth Nammour

So there is such a thing as a typical day? No, but like, we, so we go into an office. We're a team of five people now, all based out of New York. So we all go into the office almost every day, which is like, I would recommend for anyone having a startup to not do it remotely, do it in person. Makes it like, makes it more efficient and makes it also more fun. Like, you get to chat with your [coworkers] every day and like live and breathe with them. But go into the office, I think, get there around eight. I like to do like my LinkedIn, emails in the morning. That way I can do the rest of my meetings during the day. And like, because during the day, like, I don't get like, I get pings by like, you know, meetings or like questions. So I don't have much time. And then after that, in the afternoon, I code. So I still code, yeah, in the afternoon.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, nice. You're not afraid of getting your hands dirty.

Elizabeth Nammour

No, yeah. I can't. I don't, I can't let go, which is bad.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Well, it's good and bad, I guess. Maybe, I mean, if you're only five people, maybe, maybe still good. There's a way, I think, to code where it's more like leadership coding, where you're building like foundations or you're building interfaces or, I don't know, doing [code] reviews, and you're a little bit higher level than just deciding on what library to use and filling in.

Elizabeth Nammour

No, I agree. It's important to like kind of like build out maybe like a big, big, big feature, but not like, you know, extend a feature like by some small amount.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, right. So what would you say the best day has been for you so far at Teleskope?

Elizabeth Nammour

I think it could be either like the day we got our first customer, like that was very exciting.

Jon McLachlan

Isn't it? Like they sign on the line, and you're like, there's one coming in.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. And it's so nerve-wracking because, you know, the whole legal process takes forever.

Jon McLachlan

It does.

Elizabeth Nammour

And you are like, oh my God, what if it's taking too long? And like, they don't want to be a customer anymore. And like, you get into your head with all these like scenarios that are not logical at all. But once it's signed, you're like so happy. But another one could honestly be like when we grew the team. So we're two co-founders. When we hired our first employee, it was also so fun because, like, I've never hired anyone before, or, you know.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, yep. No, that's, that's incredible. I love that. And now they're, their livelihood depends on [like] the company doing well and being financially responsible and all sorts of, yeah, that stress is not great, but it's exhilarating, and one, maybe one of the best days you've had so far.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Awesome. What about the worst day that you've had so far? If there has been one.

Elizabeth Nammour

There obviously are like a lot of bad days, like a lot of bad days. I think the worst one was like really at the beginning, when we got our first no from an investor. I think it just, the first one hits like the hardest, like, because not used to hearing no. Now I hear no all the time and it barely affects me. But like, the first one is, the first one is like a punch, like a gut punch. You don't know, like, you keep thinking, like, what could I have done better? But sometimes, like, obviously there's things I could have done better, but sometimes it's also not the right fit. And like, you get to get, you get to that perspective after a while.

Jon McLachlan

Actually, grateful that you don't have like a board of directors filled with a bunch of, uh, [misfits] in terms of your investors.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, for sure. So right now we don't have a board, so it's just us, but like our advisors and our investors have been so great. And it's definitely like the right fit. So we're like, in retrospect, it was a good thing.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. It's one of those things where it's like you know it when you feel it.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, for sure. Like, even finding advisors for a startup, like you have to click with the person, not just because, like, on paper they look great.

Jon McLachlan

You have to have like chemistry and like, you know, like, yeah, you have to be a positive dynamic. Something good has to come from those relationships.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, yeah, like personality, it is a personality thing. Like, sometimes you just don't click with someone and like, yeah, you're not going to get like, to get the best relationship out of it because you're not like, you're not meant to click.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Sometimes that happens, and it's just important to identify that and, uh

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. [Move forward].

Jon McLachlan

[Move forward]. Um, so if we are talking about the future, if you fast forward into the future, I'll let you decide how far into the future you'd like to go. But when you look at that future and you see a smashing success for Teleskope, help us see what that is. What does that vision look like for you?

Elizabeth Nammour

I think like [end vision] is being the one-stop shop for any type of, not just data security, but anything security related, because everyone knows you have to buy 20 to 100 different tools on a security team, and no one likes [that]. So I think [end vision], like 20 years from now, would be that. But I think five years from now, we do want to be the leading data security and privacy platform out there.

Jon McLachlan

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. That's very ambitious, and I love it. Yeah. I also love the end vision to like be the one-stop shop for all things security.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, that would be so great. 'Cause then, if, I know it's obviously hard to be the best at everything, but hopefully one day someone can get there.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, and when I put on my chief security officer hat, like, that also sounds very good. It simplifies a lot of things. Like, there's so many vendors out there, right?

Elizabeth Nammour

And you're not paying like 10 million for each vendor.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. That's right. Constrained budgets here. Life of a startup.

Elizabeth Nammour

Right. Literally.

Jon McLachlan

So you mentioned that you recently hired, had a couple new hires. There are five people now total. So you've done some interviewing. I'm sure you've done interviewing back when you were in Airbnb.

Elizabeth Nammour

A lot, yeah. A lot.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. So I'm curious, do you have a favorite interview question?

Elizabeth Nammour

I think it depends. Are we talking like coding interview or like just architecture interview or like person interview?

Jon McLachlan

Oh, I guess all of the above, none of the above.

Elizabeth Nammour

Like, even, yeah, I would think for coding, like I really like asking a question where there's no real algorithm to it. It's more like building a data structure and like them interacting with that data structure. Just because I feel like sometimes you just don't get the algorithm, and that doesn't mean you're a bad software engineer. It just means that it's like in like the hour that you had. But like, if

Jon McLachlan

We're human, and we don't remember things like [Dijkstra's shortest path] or something like that.

Elizabeth Nammour

Dynamic programming.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, or dynamic programming, or what is that?

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. Yeah, graphs. Like, when have you ever had to build a graph like from scratch? Like, yeah, anyways.

Jon McLachlan

I think there's databases known for that, right?

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly. Um, so I think that one is my favorite one. I also, for architecture, I really like to keep it like very open-ended, like have them describe like a project that they like doing at the company, like their favorite project, and asking them like, what was the purpose of that project? Like, why did they decide to tackle it too? Like, so that you can see, really understands the why of things and like really cares. I think that's something it shows.

Jon McLachlan

Nice. So connecting like the details of a project to the bigger picture.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. You don't want someone who's just doing something to do something. You want someone to know why they're doing it and like truly, yeah, truly understanding.

Jon McLachlan

Be passionate, be passionate about it. So have you ever been in an interview and you like, I don't know, notice a red flag? Or do you have a series of red flags that are like for sure showstoppers, or a series of green flags where it's like you'll fight to the death to bring that person on the team?

Elizabeth Nammour

I think like if someone is super curious and asks like why. Like, for example, if I give them feedback and they ask why and they're curious, like that's always a great green flag. But if they're very like against you, or like don't like you, won't like when you give them a feedback or like tell them like, oh, like, sometimes even at Airbnb, like I would try to help them. I would be like, you know, what if you did something like this? And some people would just completely ignore what I would try to, to tell that, like, that's a

Jon McLachlan

Nice little hint, and they, it just, it gets ignored.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly. That's like the biggest red flag. It's like, okay, how are we going to work together?

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, so it's about like the chemistry and the communication. If someone listens to someone else.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, yeah, if they can listen. And if you're not listening to me in an interview where I'm interviewing you, when are you going to listen to me?

Jon McLachlan

You know, that's a good question. I've always thought of like an interview as, like, that's that person on their absolute best behavior. So any

Elizabeth Nammour

You'd think so.

Jon McLachlan

I mean, I guess everyone has one of those days where it's just like they're not with it or like they're stumbling through a question, but you can stumble through a question and still be an absolutely delightful, pleasant person.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. Like, sometimes, okay, you can perform your best, but that, like, I think personality red flags are, yeah, are always red flags. And one time, one guy never turned on his camera, and that was also a red flag towards the end.

Jon McLachlan

Like, oh, that's kind of different.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. Like in the world of COVID, where we're all working remotely, it, I, it's very, that's why I turn my camera. Yeah, like, I get it. Maybe one day, of course, one interview, you don't feel like you're best, you don't want to turn your camera, I get it. But every other time, I feel like it's weird or something is off.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to have like human connection, at least as much as we can, even if we're going to be remote.

Elizabeth Nammour

No, I agree, because when the camera's up and your camera's on, there's something really, it feels really odd. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

You can connect. Yeah, you can connect to it. Facts. I remember when I was doing pitches, it was all during COVID, and I would set up the camera and the light on my face, and I would put the deck behind the camera so it looked like I was looking directly at everybody, even if I was looking at the deck and even reading some notes. Yeah. Eye contact is very important.

Elizabeth Nammour

It's very important. Yeah. No, I think I can get better with eye contact when like on Zoom, because it's hard. Like, you're looking at your slides and then you're, you're not looking, it well.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. It's tricky. It's very important. 'Cause I think it, like, at the very core of what we have is we have trust, and in security, especially, that is all that we have. And as soon as you establish that with another person, if that person is like in an interview or you're trying to sell them something, maybe a new product or something, it's like, as soon as that trust is there, you can have a real conversation.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. And you need to build that trust. Like, for an early stage startup, it's kind of hard because people are like, who are you? Like, why should I trust you? Like, there's [nothing] about your company online, like when you first get started. But like, that human connection helps them build trust, because they trust you, and so they end up trusting the company.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, that's right, that's right. Have you ever had any like really difficult questions come in from potential customers that have, that you've answered in a way that you thought really reinforced that trust, or was it like an uncomfortable answer? But because you answered it that way, they trust you more.

Elizabeth Nammour

I think when you're very honest about like the features that you support and the features that you don't, because I think it can like muddy in security, where people like claim they do a lot of things, but then turns out they don't. So sometimes when you're just brutally, [I'd] say, hey, I don't support that right now, but I could, like, if you want me, like, I could work with you on this feature, but right now we don't support that. They really like that answer because it shows you're not like, you know, trying to sell [something].

Jon McLachlan

Overcommitting.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

You're well grounded.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. 'Cause a lot of people, you can't tell, like, okay, do they do this feature or not? Like, it's so confusing. You just don't know until you deploy. And sometimes they don't even run pilots. So you have to buy the tool to only find out that they didn't say what they said, they didn't do what they said they did.

Jon McLachlan

So. Yeah. Yeah. What's it like to be a female founder in this like overly masculine environment, and, um, and in security too? I kind of feel like security is overrun by guys.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's great. Our team were four women and one guy, so that's really good.

Jon McLachlan

Oh, that's awesome.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. And it helped, yeah, it happened by chance. It's more like we interviewed so many people, and like four, like the two women were like the best that we could find, so it's been so great. Um, and as a founder, I think it's tough just because, especially with investors, I think less so with customers. But it's very much like a guys' club in terms of like personality types that investors click with. So yeah, I think like if you have a specific personality too, like you could be seen as not, like, they love like people who have like a god complex or like really love, like, you know, like flaunting themselves. And I think women are more harsh on themselves. And so that sometimes doesn't come off well when you're talking with an investor, because they're used to people flaunting like every aspect of their life.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Like peacocking, I call that peacocking.

Elizabeth Nammour

What is that?

Jon McLachlan

What [is it]? You know, like if, when a peacock gets afraid or whatever, the feathers go up, and it's just like a bunch of colors, and you're like, wow, that's really pretty, but you're still just a little bird.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly. And I think women do the opposite, where they are so critical on themselves. And like, if they don't know something 100%, they won't like say that they know it. Whereas like an investor conversation, it has to be like literally the opposite.

Jon McLachlan

See, I value that honesty, though. I think that's where the real value [comes from].

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

I think so. I think so. But I'm not an investor. I'm not a [VC], so yeah. I think if we had a VC on the show and we posed that question to them, all of them would side along the lines of, oh, we prefer honesty, we prefer honesty. But I think I've noticed like what you're talking about myself. It is, there is a huge aspect of this, that it's a little boys' club, and they all talk to each other. And as soon as you start talking to one, all the other ones know about you somehow. It's a hype thing. It's all hype.

Elizabeth Nammour

It is. It is. Yeah. I mean, now with the whole Gen AI, like if you're a Gen AI startup, it's so easy to raise money too.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Well, you have AI in the Teleskope.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, we have, we use large language models, so we're definitely playing that card.

Jon McLachlan

But yeah. Well, I think the technology fits, right? You have to identify what type of data is flying around a system.

Elizabeth Nammour

No, it does. And I think, I don't think Gen AI is a hype in a bad way. I think like that's the difference between this and other like hypes, is that this, like, the technology is really cool. It's more like how people are like, you know, talking about it is what makes it such a hype. And like, like, it's been here for so long. Like, why are people talking about it now? Yeah, this much.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what causes the bubbles, you know. It's not the technologies themselves. The houses had nothing to do with the bubbles. It was all about the people, or our perception, and mortgages. Yeah, so, what we did.

Elizabeth Nammour

I wonder if that would ever happen again.

Jon McLachlan

I mean, a history unlearned is a history repeated.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, it's true. People forget, right?

Jon McLachlan

Yes. Yeah. Okay, no. Yes. Yep. And okay, no, that's really interesting. Thank you for sharing. I know it's like a vulnerable space to be in to talk about those sorts of things. But, you know, maybe imagine that there's a young woman out there or a member of a minority, and that they're hearing an inspirational story from someone who has, in their minds, like, made it. I know you probably feel like the journey is all in front of you, but I think a lot of people look up to you and say, wow. Like, look at Elizabeth go.

Elizabeth Nammour

That's funny because, yeah, I'm looking at other people that way.

Jon McLachlan

I mean, it's important that all of us have someone that we're looking up to, you know, perhaps, and have goals in line.

Elizabeth Nammour

Oh, sure. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Would you recommend a book or a movie maybe that you read or you watched that really left a mark on your soul? Maybe change the way that you saw, how you understand how the world works?

Elizabeth Nammour

I think this one is tough. I was just thinking about this earlier today. I think, like, my favorite movie ever would be Shawshank Redemption, even though I know that's like a cliche answer.

Jon McLachlan

Everyone loves a cliche answer. That's a really good movie.

Elizabeth Nammour

But everyone agrees that it's good. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I don't think I'm like saying something so revolutionary, but maybe it's not controversial.

Jon McLachlan

Exactly. Hopefully not like too controversial, if it is controversial.

Elizabeth Nammour

I wonder if someone hates that movie. I would be

Jon McLachlan

There's probably people out there that hate that.

Elizabeth Nammour

I hate that movie. But I liked it because it really shows like how important optimism is and like hope is, and like, you know, even they're in like the most dire situation and they're still hopeful. And at the end, everything kind of works out. So I really like that.

Jon McLachlan

That's why I feel like a lot of positive energy and, uh, an [ability]. It feels like we're both afflicted with the same mental condition of, no matter what is happening around us, like we can find that silver lining and we can see the good coming out of the situation.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important because if not, if you're always thinking about the bad, you're never going to be happy ever. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

I guess. Does happiness get tied into how we see the world? Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I'm sure.

Jon McLachlan

It absolutely does. Yeah.

Elizabeth Nammour

Isn't that what like meditation tries to teach you, is like changing your perspective on like things that are happening to you?

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's like lots of different types of meditation. One of them is like, um, like how to become an observer and just observe what's happening. And because you're not the action taker.

Elizabeth Nammour

You're not.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Instead of like feeling the emotion and then engaging like with anger, for example, like feel the emotion, feel it all the way through, but then ask yourself the question, like, why do I feel?

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. And it [answers]. And that way, you feel anger a lot less.

Jon McLachlan

Like, yeah, I think you do. You do. And it becomes like not this, like, overpowering, overbearing sort of thing. It just becomes like data. It's a signal. It's a signal. It's a signal about, like, what's happening around you and whether that's aligned with your values. And if it's, if it's violently misaligned with your values, you may feel anger.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. And then, like, in that case, like, it's telling you something. You take action, but you're not, like, drowning in that feeling for days and days and days. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Amazing.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. I think optimism also comes from like, I think all Lebanese people are optimistic just because, like, from the country's perspective, you have to be. So I think, like, that's definitely why I have

Jon McLachlan

You grew up in Lebanon? What was that like?

Elizabeth Nammour

Wasn't like, it was really good. Like, I really like it. I don't think I could see myself living there nowadays because, like, the whole economic situation is weird. But it's funny because at the time, when you're kids, it's more of a danger in terms of like physical danger. Like, there might be like a bomb somewhere, you know what I mean?

Jon McLachlan

Right.

Elizabeth Nammour

Now there's no longer [AK-47s] going off, like, in the corner of the street. Now there's no longer that danger, but now it's more of like an economic danger. And so what made the country way worse than, like, people are way more unhappy than they were during the war.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Wow, that's, that's an interesting spin. Yeah. I had someone else on the show, David [Gurle]. He spent a lot of time in Lebanon, and I remember he was, [how come], his family was moving around and they spent a lot of time in London. And he [said he] was actually French, but for whatever reason, he grew up a good chunk of his childhood in Lebanon. And he remembers, he recalls like hearing gunshots and meeting people that were very angry with another group of people, and he didn't understand why, because he was just a child.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

And he developed a strong sense of like empathy because of that. Because at the end of the day, we're all human, and he could see that. You could see that as a child, right? We're very innocent, and we're not indoctrinated with all this us versus them crap.

Elizabeth Nammour

But it is very much us versus them in those types of countries because, like, when you have war that like kind of represented two religions, like, it's hard to take someone outside of that mindset of us versus them, because it was that way for like 30 years. So it's really hard for like people who lived through that war to not see it that way. But for us, like the new generation, like, it's like, why do you still feel so much hatred for a different group of people? You know what I mean?

Jon McLachlan

Because, yeah, right. Right. And right behind you, I feel like I have to share this with our listeners. We're not going to get the visuals. It says, make art, not war.

Elizabeth Nammour

Oh, yeah. I love it.

Jon McLachlan

It's beautiful. It's like so pertinent too to our discussion.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, it's not mine. I'm in an Airbnb, so. But I do like it. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

It's perfect. It's a really good backdrop. So if you could go back in time to your younger self, and you could offer your younger self a bit of advice or a bit of wisdom, what would that be?

Elizabeth Nammour

I think it's to not be overly stressed about like the next goal. Like, I can remember like how going to like the best college was like the biggest stress of my life. Like, you know, like getting all these A's, and like now looking back, like, did it even matter? Like, it's not, you know what I mean? Like, you're always so focused and stressed about achieving the next goal, but it's going to happen. You're going to achieve that goal one way or another. So there's no point in like being so stressed about that.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. That's a good attitude to have. It sounds like you overcame a strong sense of like, um, imposter syndrome.

Elizabeth Nammour

And it's more like, okay, like, I'm getting all these A's. Like, obviously, it's important to study and do so well. But like, being so focused on just those goals, not like, you know, not going to be

Jon McLachlan

It's not, maybe not healthy.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And being stressed about the worst case scenario, like, what if I don't get into college? Like, [that obviously] was not going to happen. So I don't know why I kept thinking about that worst possible scenario. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Well, it feels like you've come a long way since those feelings. Yeah.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

It's great to, um, I don't know, look back and reflect on how much we've grown over the years.

Elizabeth Nammour

For sure, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy to see how you've changed, like, since you were a kid. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Would you say like a Teleskope has really like helped you grow?

Elizabeth Nammour

Definitely. You just become okay with so many things just because, like, you always get no's, like with, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. I just, I was so against, like, for example, I could never have imagined me cold outreaching someone, like sending a message to like someone on LinkedIn without knowing them. But now I do this all the time. I don't have a barrier.

Jon McLachlan

I bet you don't even think about it. It's just like, it was a template, a spreadsheet. Out they go.

Elizabeth Nammour

No, it's like, I like, yeah, I like messaging, not like, you know, sending [mass messages]. But before, I was just so afraid, like, oh, I'm bothering them. But no, no, no.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. So do you have, do you have a top-down go-to-market strategy?

Elizabeth Nammour

So right now it has to be like top-down when you're such an early stage. But eventually, we [do] want to have a bottoms-up on top of a top-down. So basically, have like developers and security engineers try out the tool, like use the tool, have a freemium approach, and then try to sell like the bigger platform.

Jon McLachlan

Very nice. So if I want, if, so, if I wanted to try this out, what would you recommend that I do?

Elizabeth Nammour

If you wanted to try Teleskope out, so, first step would be to schedule a demo right now, so we could show you the whole tool, and then we can set things up with you. You can set your environment.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Awesome. It sounds, it sounds very easy. Yeah. So, and this, this tool would solve the problem of like understanding what types of data I have and which systems, and how to become like GDPR compliant or CCPA compliant or HIPAA compliant.

Elizabeth Nammour

Or, and we actually help you like remediate the issue. So, like, fix, fix those miscom, like, [misconfigurations] or non-compliant. Our true power is that we're really developer friendly. So all of our insights, you access them via APIs. So you can build your own security and privacy controls. It's very customizable within a company. Like, I can't build things out of the box for you because you're using internal systems, internal services, and having that flexibility to build your own thing on top of us is, yeah, really important.

Jon McLachlan

It sounds, it sounds important. It sounds like you're going after pretty, pretty big size customers too, if they have their own internal tools that they want to

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah,

Jon McLachlan

inject your data into.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. Yeah. That way you're not like another tool that doesn't communicate with the other tools they're using. They can actually plug you in.

Jon McLachlan

Is there like a SaaS component to the tool? Is it 100% on-prem?

Elizabeth Nammour

So it can be single-tenant SaaS or on-prem, whichever you prefer.

Jon McLachlan

Nice. Okay. Single-tenant SaaS. That makes me feel very secure.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly.

Jon McLachlan

At least like segregated from all of the other things that are [created] in the cloud.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yes. And that way, like, there's like a whole network, yeah, network segregation. Like, you only allow access for one customer. It just makes it way more secure and way more easy to manage.

Jon McLachlan

So don't feel obligated to answer this question.

Elizabeth Nammour

Okay.

Jon McLachlan

But is, is, do you mainly compete with like Drata [and] Vanta, or

Elizabeth Nammour

No, not at all. I think, yeah, no, I think we're more like, we have synergies with them. So they help you with like the policies. Like, they tell you what you need to do, but they don't tell you whether you're actually doing them or not, or how to fix them, like, engineering's perspective. And so we go ahead and we help you from the engineering perspective. So we can tell you, these are all your databases that have PII. So you could upload that onto Drata, because that's a question that GDPR or even SOC 2 asks you: where are you storing sensitive data? And oftentimes, no one knows the answer to that.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, I've been in large enough companies where nobody knows. And then you get databases, mystery databases that show up. And sometimes they have prod data in them because a developer wanted to do the right thing and test, and test against like [prod] data.

Elizabeth Nammour

Like, for one day, from [prod]. Exactly. And just leave it by accident. Like, yeah. It's so easy, exactly, like to just forget. And then like, if you have 10,000 engineers, how are you going to keep up?

Jon McLachlan

And then everything has backups and backups of backups, and the data goes flying around all over the place.

Elizabeth Nammour

And it's like, and then you have 10 different, like, you have three different clouds, like 10,000 different vendors, like SaaS providers. Then like it just becomes a whole thing.

Jon McLachlan

So may I ask, like, how does it, how does it gain visibility into like databases and where the data is in a, in a complex, like, large application?

Elizabeth Nammour

So basically, yeah. So, I mean, the big vision is that we could discover, for example, AWS accounts automatically. So by plugging into your like emails or like billing software to be able to figure those stuff out and figure out which vendors you're using as well. But now all you need to do is just give us like an IAM role, and we're able to discover everything within that account. So everything within that AWS organization.

Jon McLachlan

Awesome. So it like, it just like crawls around.

Elizabeth Nammour

Crawls everything. Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

Like, uh, almost like, uh, a training ChatGPT thing, but on data. It's security data, and it's, it's all yours. And so the result is also all yours with one of these single-tenant SaaS instances.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly. And then it also makes it easy. Like, if the company wants us to destroy their data, like it makes it so much easier for us to just confirm that we can delete all of their, like, you know, the metadata that we store, if it's single-tenant.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. That sounds really safe. I've certainly seen companies that have had this problem. I don't think I've ever been in a large company that has not had this problem.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly. I think any company that has [over], I think, a hundred and fifty to two hundred employees, like when they're starting to figure out what they need to do, even for compliance, we can help like even like those, make sure those controls are all in place, like from an engineering perspective. So you don't have to waste your time doing that.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah. No, that sounds [very fair]. Yeah, super, super easy to set up. Yeah. One of the barriers to entry to all these different vendors is like the sludge that you have to run through to get like these vendors set up. But even if you want to do a little POC, it's like a ton of work.

Elizabeth Nammour

Sometimes it takes like a month, or that's optimistic.

Jon McLachlan

And, and for me, like, okay, you're talking about a month, and that's optimistic, but I'm counting even like 30 minutes as like a sludge.

Elizabeth Nammour

Too much work. Too much work. No, 30 minutes, forget it. Forget it. Especially for a POC. What was like the worst onboarding experience you had?

Jon McLachlan

So, um, it was just horrible because it just kept going on and on and on, and then I ended up being their QA. And I don't have the heart to name the company, but it's a very popular name.

Elizabeth Nammour

Okay.

Jon McLachlan

It was just horrible. And I was, I had it, I had agreement and alignment with the C-level executives to move forward with this. And I was like, look, we need all of these protections. Here's, you know, this is like the standard in the industry. Like, let's just do it. And I was like, okay, shut up and take my money and give me the install script or whatever. And they gave it that, like, nothing worked. Just nothing worked. And I was like, what is this? And we ended up not doing the deal because of the onboarding experience was so horrid, and we had to move fast. Yeah. And it turns out there's a lot of like open source alternatives. So just deploy yourself. If you just deploy yourself, it actually worked and had a strong sense of community back behind them. Didn't have to be other people's QA and all sorts of stuff.

Elizabeth Nammour

So, I would not have expected that.

Jon McLachlan

I did not expect that [at all].

Elizabeth Nammour

Were they small at the time?

Jon McLachlan

They were huge. This is recent. I think the larger the company, the harder it is for the company to like maneuver and fix bugs that it has within itself, and the least innovative it's going to be.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I would hope an install is going to work. I would hope the install would work. I get everything else, but like the install, like, that should be the only thing that works.

Jon McLachlan

You know, that's like the most important thing of the whole deal. [Here], take the money. Here's the install script. Go. You know, it did not work.

Elizabeth Nammour

That's so funny. What did they say when you said you no longer wanted to move forward?

Jon McLachlan

Well, I just said, like, I'm not going to be your QA, and you guys have to go figure out this bug. And they wanted me to post like a whole bunch of logs from a giant system that we had. And I looked at the logs, and it had like all of this other data in it, you know, that I couldn't share with them. And I was like, no, this is not going to, I'm not giving you this. I can't give you this. Like, this is too much. So go, go figure it out. Go reproduce it. Here's how to reproduce it. They kept coming back to me with like requests to do this and try that, and can I see the logs? And I was like, no, you can't see the logs.

Elizabeth Nammour

I mean, that's the issue with sometimes on-prem, is like if there is a bug, like, it, it, you're going to have to do a lot of like hand-holding to help them fix it.

Jon McLachlan

That is true. Yeah. That's very true.

Elizabeth Nammour

Whereas with SaaS, you could see the bugs yourself, but I don't know if like they would have been able to.

Jon McLachlan

So, hey, we have a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to this thing. And I always like to ask this leading question. Is there anything, any pain point that you feel that you wish someone would just step up to the plate and fix and solve, and like go build a company around?

Elizabeth Nammour

A hundred percent. I think documentation needs to be fixed, because I truly believe that engineers, and like, are not going to update them or even write them in the first place. So if there could be something that like basically crawled the code and then wrote the documentation for it automatically. Like, now, I think, with the new like instances of AI as well, I think that definitely is possible. And that would solve like all the pain points.

Jon McLachlan

So many problems. That's such a good idea. I love that idea.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah. No one's going to update their documentation. Maybe they'll write it once, but then if they change something, they're not going to update it.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, unless they're like very nitpicky around like documentation. But if not, they're not going to update it. This reminds me of an engineer that I work with at Symphony Communications. And someone asked him about the documentation of his code once, and he looked at this person and he said something along the line, he scoffed, he's like a grumpy old man look, and he [scoffed] at them, and he said, the code is the documentation. It's like, okay, that's, that's [snooty] and true at the same time. And maybe now with this tool, like, we could actually get something human readable.

Elizabeth Nammour

Was his code that well written, that like it's so readable?

Jon McLachlan

He wrote pretty good code, but I also sympathize with the person who just didn't want to read the code.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah.

Jon McLachlan

And because I was one of the people who didn't want to read the code. And I just wanted to see the documentation. Like, hey, there's an API here. I know there's an API. I don't want to reverse engineer like how you stood up the server and then like open a port and then like connect a router to it, and then, oh, here's your endpoint, and then here's the post. And, you know, like, seriously. Just let me know what goes in and what goes out.

Elizabeth Nammour

Exactly.

Jon McLachlan

What is the contract? What is the contract that this thing has with the rest of the world?

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah.

Jon McLachlan

And an AI that scans code and looks for contracts and publishes those would be very cool.

Elizabeth Nammour

'Cause right now, even like with like, I know there's like Postman, like you can write the, yeah, I forgot what it's called. Um, this library that you can install that like will generate the documentation for you, but you have to be super explicit like in the comments, that it's

Jon McLachlan

It's basically, here it is, and here's the inputs, and it's not reading the code, it's reading your comments.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, exactly.

Jon McLachlan

Like Swagger or something, or OpenAPI.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, all of these great tools. Yeah. Like, it's great, but it doesn't solve like the true problem, which is like people don't even want to write that in the first place.

Jon McLachlan

Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah. Well, Lizzy, it's been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for joining me on an episode of the Security Podcast in Silicon Valley.

Elizabeth Nammour

Thank you for having me.

Jon McLachlan

Would you like to leave our listeners with any words of wisdom?

Elizabeth Nammour

Words of wisdom? I'm on the spot.

Jon McLachlan

I don't mean to put you on the spot. Like, we can, we can save this for the next round. You know, when you're, uh, the CEO of a large unicorn startup, and on your way to

Elizabeth Nammour

Knock on wood, knock on wood.

Jon McLachlan

Knock on wood. Yeah. Yeah. There we go.

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, I mean, I, I think, like, definitely like, yeah, just keeping the optimism and just keep pushing through, because I think the reasons why like startups fail is because, like, you give up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can always

Jon McLachlan

The only reason they fail. That's the only reason. I heard this saying, I heard this one saying once, it was like, I've heard a couple of funny sayings, but like the, the serious one was that a founder is the first to know that something is going to fail and the last to believe it.

Elizabeth Nammour

So, exactly, 'cause you're always like, okay, we're [in the] solution. Like, you know, you can always find the solution. You can always find the solution.

Jon McLachlan

There's always like a way forward. The obstacle is the path. The other funny saying that I've heard before is like, it's for the Bay Area folks, which is 101 was made for founders and 280 was built for the [VCs].

Elizabeth Nammour

Wait, why? I don't get it.

Jon McLachlan

Well, because 280 is a beautiful road, and it's like smoothly paved, and there's rolling hills, and there's no traffic on it ever. And 101 is always a crapshoot. Okay. With potholes and like

Elizabeth Nammour

Yeah, like the [VC] lifestyle, the [founder] lifestyle is so different.

Jon McLachlan

It's so different.

Elizabeth Nammour

It's so different.

Jon McLachlan

All right. So different. Yeah. It's really funny. Okay. Well, thank you for all of our listeners for tuning in to another episode of the Security Podcast in Silicon Valley. And thanks, and thank you to Elizabeth too.

Elizabeth Nammour

Thank you so much for having me, Jon.

Jon McLachlan

No, thank you. You're welcome back on anytime.

FAQ

Questions this episode answers

Who is Lizzy Nammour?
Elizabeth Nammour, who goes by Lizzy, is the co-founder and CEO of Teleskope, a data security company she started in March 2022. Before that she was a senior software engineer on the data security team at Airbnb from August 2017 to February 2022, where she worked on GDPR and CCPA. She interned at Amazon and at Booz Allen Hamilton and studied computer science at the University of Pennsylvania.
What does Teleskope do?
In the episode, Lizzy described an AI-driven data protection platform that helps companies automate security, privacy and compliance at scale, in a way that suits developers. It finds and classifies sensitive data, helps fix the issues it finds, and hands its findings to a company's own tools through APIs.
What was Lizzy's first task at Airbnb?
In her first three weeks she was handed a dump of every column in the data warehouse and asked to identify the PII in each one. She went through them one by one, by hand, and called it the biggest pain.
How does Teleskope find data in AWS?
At the time of the episode, a customer gave Teleskope an IAM role, and it discovered everything within that account and the AWS organization. The bigger vision was to find a company's AWS accounts automatically, through email or billing software.
Does Teleskope compete with Drata and Vanta?
Lizzy said no. Drata and Vanta help with policies and tell you what you need to do. Teleskope works from the engineering side, showing whether you're doing it and how to fix it, such as a list of every database that holds PII to upload as evidence.
Why does single tenancy matter for a data security tool?
Lizzy offered single-tenant SaaS or on-prem. A single tenant gives each customer its own network, which is more secure and easier to manage, and it makes it easier to confirm that all of a customer's metadata was deleted when they ask.
What are Lizzy's green and red flags in interviews?
A candidate who is curious and asks why after feedback is a great green flag. A candidate who ignores a hint is the biggest red flag. She also counted a candidate who never turned on his camera as a red flag.
What tool does Lizzy wish someone would build?
Something that crawls the code and writes the documentation automatically, because engineers don't write documentation or update it. Tools like Swagger or OpenAPI read the comments engineers write, and people don't want to write those either.
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